RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,272
Posts: 5,349,756
Members: 24,610
Currently online: 676
Newest member: VST

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 15 2013, 07:07 PM   #46
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Further, just based on the episode, I always thought Gary 7 had traveled in time. As a kid I assumed Gary was from the 20th Century, recruited and educated by an advanced society in the future, then sent back in time to his 20th Century to carry out his assignment. As stated, the lines of dialogue always made me believe this.
Here are the lines of dialogue:
SEVEN: My name is Gary Seven. I am a human being from the twentieth century. I was on my way--
KIRK: Humans of the twentieth century do not go beaming around the galaxy, Mister Seven.
SEVEN: I've been living on another planet far more advanced. I was beaming to Earth when you intercepted me.
KIRK: The location of that planet?
SEVEN: They wish their existence kept secret. Even in your time, it will remain unknown.
SCOTT: It's impossible to hide a whole planet.
SEVEN: Impossible for you, not for them. Captain Kirk, I am of this time period. You are not. You interfere with me with what I have to do there, and you'll change history. You'll destroy the Earth and probably yourselves, too.
And later:
Agents are male and female, descendants of human ancestors taken from Earth approximately six thousand years ago. They're the product of generations of training for this mission.
Look, a truly advanced planet wouldn't use force. They wouldn't come here in strange alien forms. The best of all possible methods would be to take human beings to their world, train them for generations until they're needed here.
So yes, clearly his organization has knowledge of the future, but he himself is explicitly a native of the 20th century, although he never actually lived on Earth prior to the events of the episode. He and hundreds of generations of his ancestors were raised on another planet, beginning c. 4000 BCE, and selectively bred into physically and intellectually superior beings. Which is more evidence that the Aegis has future knowledge, since they knew they'd need to abduct humans and breed a race of super-agents by the 20th century. But the episode stressed that Gary himself was born and raised in the 20th century, just not on Earth.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 07:09 PM   #47
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Shawnster wrote: View Post
I saw Assignment Earth long before I saw Dr. Who. I never really made the connection between the two until now. Further, just based on the episode, I always thought Gary 7 had traveled in time. As a kid I assumed Gary was from the 20th Century, recruited and educated by an advanced society in the future, then sent back in time to his 20th Century to carry out his assignment. As stated, the lines of dialogue always made me believe this. I mean, how else would he know that the planet he was on would be unknown to 23rd Century Starfleet? Either future time travelers came back with such information, oor else he had spent time in the future.
I assumed Gary Seven was one of the descendants of the human stock taken by the aliens six thousand years before. I also assumed—without foundation—that he was the seventh man named Gary in their program, and so Gary VII, actually.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 07:20 PM   #48
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I assumed Gary Seven was one of the descendants of the human stock taken by the aliens six thousand years before.
That's exactly what was intended, as the dialogue itself indicates. Actually it's a little ambiguous; Gary only says that "agents" are descended from those abducted humans, and he's a supervisor, not an agent. But the pitch document that was written a couple of weeks ahead of the episode script clearly states that he is one of those descendants.


I also assumed—without foundation—that he was the seventh man named Gary in their program, and so Gary VII, actually.
"Gary Seven" is his code name, according to dialogue. Presumably it's not his real name. After all, would the name "Gary" have existed 6,000 years ago when his ancestors were taken from Earth? (Its ancestor, the Gaelic name Garaidh, has only been traced back as far as the Middle Ages, sez Wikipedia.) I always figured that, since the people who gave him the code name were aliens, they were a little bit off the mark in their attempt to coin a plausible human/Western name. Although in Watching the Clock I referred to other Aegis agents as Cyral Nine and Rodal Eight; I decided at the time to treat them as ranks or tiers, with lower numbers being higher echelons. I've sometimes wondered if that was really a good idea.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 07:39 PM   #49
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Christopher wrote: View Post
"Gary Seven" is his code name, according to dialogue.
True. But I always interpreted that in the context of the fact that he was part of a multi-generational covert operation. I accepted the idea that he was assigned his code name at birth. And to find out why I made that leap, you'll have to ask preteen CorporalCaptain; it just seemed right to me.

After all, would the name "Gary" have existed 6,000 years ago when his ancestors were taken from Earth?
No, but Gary's aliens obviously kept up with the times, and could have named the subjects. I don't see why Gary, at least, can't be his given name. It's not like he actually needs an alias for the sort of reason that, say, the spies on The Americans do.

Perhaps Gary 7 is the prefix to a much longer alphanumeric identifier.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 09:10 PM   #50
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I accepted the idea that he was assigned his code name at birth.
"Code," by definition, means the conversion of information into a different form. So something can only be a code name if it's different from your real name.


No, but Gary's aliens obviously kept up with the times, and could have named the subjects.
But consider it. We're talking about a population of humans who've grown up together on an alien planet for 6000 years. Do you really want to believe they're mere puppets of the aliens who have all their decisions made for them right down to what they're named? I find that a rather hideous prospect. To all indications, the Aegis are good guys, and they care about human rights and individuality and freedom and all that. That's what Gary was sent to Earth to protect. So presumably they'd grant freedom to their own agents as well, and allow them to develop their own culture, name and raise their own children, and lead lives that weren't exclusively about training for secret missions.


I don't see why Gary, at least, can't be his given name. It's not like he actually needs an alias for the sort of reason that, say, the spies on The Americans do.
Again, consider his origins. Whatever language is spoken in the community he was born to -- a community whose forebears were abducted 6000 years ago -- would be a descendant of a tongue or mix of tongues older than any recorded language in human history, with six millennia of isolation and alien influence acting on it. Logically, its language, and the names its people used, would be unlike anything known on Earth. So yes, he would need an alias if he wanted to pass for a 20th-century Earth human.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 09:48 PM   #51
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Christopher, in the past I've described Gary Seven and his people on the Alien's planet(s) as being just short of "slaves." Would you agree that that is accurate?

Seven himself did say that the human ancestors were taken from Earth, a pretty specific term. Is Gary Seven, strictly speaking, a free man?

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 10:10 PM   #52
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Christopher, in the past I've described Gary Seven and his people on the Alien's planet(s) as being just short of "slaves." Would you agree that that is accurate?

Seven himself did say that the human ancestors were taken from Earth, a pretty specific term. Is Gary Seven, strictly speaking, a free man?
I don't agree with that assessment at all. Slavery is not a hereditary condition. If it were, then just about every African-American would still be considered a slave, and of course they aren't. Heck, slavery was a common practice the world over up until the 19th century, so probably virtually everyone has some slaves in their ancestry (though virtually everyone has kings in their ancestry as well). So it does not make any sense to say that someone whose remote ancestors were slaves is himself a slave.

Besides, we don't know that his ancestors were taken by force. I mean, given Gary's appearance, we're probably talking about people from central or northern European stock, and 6000 years ago that would've meant they may have been hunter-gatherers, or at best subsistence farmers. They might've been offered the chance to go someplace where their standard of living would be vastly improved, and gone willingly. Sure, Gary said they were "taken," but that's an ambiguous word -- you can take someone to the movies or take someone shopping without being arrested for kidnapping.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 11:55 PM   #53
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
That last bit just as easily can imply G7's commanders have met other time travellers, but not necessarily have the technology to do the same.
And yet, they just happen to have a transporter that is zillions of times more powerful than Enterprise technology
Why not? The ability to do one thing has no technological bearing on the feasibility to do another. That's like saying just because the horse-drawn buggy was developed, we should have expected the the airplane to be developed at the same time.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15 2013, 11:58 PM   #54
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Christopher, I think you and I have either slightly or somewhat different assumptions, here.

First of all, if Gary Seven were operating in the context of real life secret agents, "Gary Seven" would not be his code name, because that name occurs on all of Gary's forged credentials, e.g. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...arthhd0462.jpg and http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...arthhd0463.jpg. As a fake name on ID cards, the proper term would be alias. The purpose of a secret agent's code name is multifaceted, but one of those purposes is to protect the identity of the agent. The name "Gary Seven" clearly does not serve that function, since he's openly telling it to everyone in the clear. That right there would be evidence that secret agent tropes are being used in the teleplay both imprecisely and therefore erroneously, if this is how we are to interpret the meaning of "code name". It's worth noting that that would be the natural interpretation in the context of the episode.

It's also worth noting that the names "agent 201" and "agent 347" do qualify as properly used code names in the teleplay, by the real world standards of secret agents.

In any case, the purpose of the code name "Gary Seven" is certainly not obfuscation. If we are to accept that the term code name is in fact applied accurately, then we must resort to a context besides secret agents.

Code names are applied in many different ways by a variety of organizations. One application of code names is for an organization to assign unique identifiers to its items, when those items are created or acquired by the organization. The Manhattan Project is perhaps the preeminent example in the real world of something that is known only by its code name, which was assigned to it when it was created. Yes, a major purpose of that code name was to disguise what the goal of that project was, but the project simply had no other name at all, ever, at least as far as I know. But another purpose of that code name was to make sure that the referenced project had a unique designation. The fact that there is only one correct way to decode the code name is one of the most important properties of codes that is being exploited here.

An example in science fiction would be The Andromeda Strain. That is the organism's code name, and it is not known by any other name. The coding mechanism is what assigns the unique identifier, and that mechanism ensures that the code has any other properties besides uniqueness also demanded of it. In the case of Macintosh operating systems, such an additional property would be that it be a big cat name.

So, to get back to what I was assuming about Gary Seven, I was assuming that the code name Gary Seven was assigned to him at birth, to ensure that he has a unique name for all time in the organization. Heck, maybe he didn't even know or use that code name growing up. Maybe only once he graduated into training to become an agent was his code name revealed to him. He could have been given a name by his parents that was entirely different, I'll acknowledge that. But the aliens would want to give him a unique designation so they could classify him for all the various attentions that he required, whatever his ultimate role was or wasn't, since in any case his whole life existed within the context of their operation.

I agree that it's not necessarily true that the aliens abducted the ancestors by force. The humans could have gone willingly to serve their gods, for example.

I also always assumed that the aliens would be able to convince the human subjects, by laying it all out, that they were doing the right thing. Gary Seven is a true believer, and I don't think for one second that he was brainwashed or coerced in any way. To me, this is how I imagined that the aliens demonstrated their benevolence. If we are going to be idealistic, then the aliens would never have to worry about whether their project would collapse, for example due to the people refusing to cooperate, because they would be able to persuade them logically. Perhaps also they take good care of the people who don't go on to become field agents.

That said, Gary is arguably better trained than Kirk is. I'm not talking Salusa Secundus here, but Gary must have been to one helluva Kung Fu school.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 12:38 AM   #55
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Christopher, I think you and I have either slightly or somewhat different assumptions, here.

First of all, if Gary Seven were operating in the context of real life secret agents, "Gary Seven" would not be his code name, because that name occurs on all of Gary's forged credentials, e.g. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...arthhd0462.jpg and http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...arthhd0463.jpg. As a fake name on ID cards, the proper term would be alias.
It's not my assumption, it's Seven's own words:
COMPUTER: Identify self.
SEVEN: Simply check my voice pattern. You'll find me listed as Supervisor one nine four. Code name Gary Seven.
You can take up the definition of "code name" with him if you like, but he called it a code name, and that means it's not his real name -- which is the point.


So, to get back to what I was assuming about Gary Seven, I was assuming that the code name Gary Seven was assigned to him at birth, to ensure that he has a unique name for all time in the organization. Heck, maybe he didn't even know or use that code name growing up. Maybe only once he graduated into training to become an agent was his code name revealed to him. He could have been given a name by his parents that was entirely different, I'll acknowledge that.
Then why are you arguing with me at such length???? If we're agreed that it wasn't his real given name, that's the end of it.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 12:45 AM   #56
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

TAS.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 01:09 AM   #57
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Perhaps Gary 7 is the prefix to a much longer alphanumeric identifier.
Gary Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01)
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 01:19 AM   #58
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Assignment: Earth aside, perhaps a TOS spinoff could just be one aboard a different kind of Starfleet vessel--a old transport ship that's smaller, slower, and less armed than the Enterprise, but tends to end up in similar predicaments from time to time. Maybe the real twist from TOS is that the ship has a female captain and first officer perhaps, I dunno...
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 02:27 AM   #59
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2013, 03:21 AM   #60
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: What would a TOS spin off look like

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
perhaps a TOS spinoff could just be one aboard a different kind of Starfleet vessel--a old transport ship that's smaller, slower, and less armed than the Enterprise


The Starfleet freighter U.S.S. Huron from TAS' "The Pirates of Orion" sort of fit your description, as it was certainly not as large, fast or battle-capable as the Enterprise, had a smaller crew (only three were seen). A ship of its class would make the crew feel more isolated in the far reaches of space than the large, well-supplied Constitution class ship.

Perhaps you would see a focus on personal stories more than the interests of Starfleet.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.