RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,576
Posts: 5,514,614
Members: 25,154
Currently online: 507
Newest member: MC1367

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 12 2013, 08:06 PM   #751
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Kirk: you should take a closer look at Cartagia's head collection. The one that Cartagia dusts off might look familiar
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 03:45 PM   #752
Lindley
Moderator with a Soul
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Reverend wrote: View Post
Who is EarthGov going to copy next, Caligula?
I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that at no point will anyone in the Earth Alliance emulate Caligula.
Hehe.
__________________
Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly.
"So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!"
-Torg, Sluggy Freelance
Lindley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 04:53 PM   #753
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
although giving him only 20 years left to live was.
Doesn't that ruin the character for you? I mean, now you know how he's going to end up.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 06:52 PM   #754
kirk55555
Commodore
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

sojourner wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
although giving him only 20 years left to live was.
Doesn't that ruin the character for you? I mean, now you know how he's going to end up.

It didn't bother me. In the end, everyone dies. For all I know, he could go out heroically, or die in his sleep. The 20 year thing doesn't ruin his stuff. Its not like they said that 20 years from now he'd be president of a shadow occupied earth, as a possesed puppet of the shadows whose last free act would be to ask an enemy of his (lets say Morden, or Bester) to choke him to death to free him. Then, I would have been angry. But, they just said he had a mazimum of 20 years left. That is far different then telling me exactly how he dies.

Anyway, on to the episode I watched.

The Long Night - Londo's plan was a good one. You'd think the Emperor's personal guard would be a bit more open to bribes, especially since they have to realise at this point that he's insane and likely to get them all killed, if he doesn't kill them for fun. It was interesting that Vir was the one to land the killing blow on the emperor. His reaction to what he did was great. the whole scene with Vir and Londo after the assassination was really good. The Shadows way of killing planets was freaky. I never would have thought last season that the good guys would end up having to fight the vorlons to stop them from mass murder. This fight to save 6 billion people is going to be interesting. Sacrificing Hal from Malcolm in the Middle (thats where I know him from, well that and seinfeld) was rough, and a great scene. The narn's reaction to being set free was weird. They were totally defeated when they started a war with the Centauri. now, with no military, they want to get revenge. That revenge would probably just end with the centauri decided to exterminate them, and the narn couldn't stop it. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that attack a force that destroyed you completely when you actually had weapons to fight them is only going to end badly for you. This was a great episode, and i'm sure the next one will be awesome.
kirk55555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 07:57 PM   #755
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
although giving him only 20 years left to live was.
Doesn't that ruin the character for you? I mean, now you know how he's going to end up.

Its not like they said that 20 years from now he'd be president of a shadow occupied earth, as a possesed puppet of the shadows whose last free act would be to ask an enemy of his (lets say Morden, or Bester) to choke him to death to free him. Then, I would have been angry. But, they just said he had a mazimum of 20 years left. That is far different then telling me exactly how he dies.
I normally don't like to give spoilers, But, obviously you already know it, how in the Hell did you guess all that, just from finding out he had only 20 years to live? Did you look ahead at Spoilers? We told you not to do that!!!





Sorry, just kidding with you, that is not what really hapens, LOL
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 11:12 PM   #756
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Lindley wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Who is EarthGov going to copy next, Caligula?
I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that at no point will anyone in the Earth Alliance emulate Caligula.
Hehe.
Call it an object lesson in why context really does matter.
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
You'd think the Emperor's personal guard would be a bit more open to bribes, especially since they have to realise at this point that he's insane and likely to get them all killed, if he doesn't kill them for fun.
An Empire that employs overly imaginative, disloyal or easily bribed guards trusted to protect the Emperor will end up going through a *lot* of Emperors...fast. The Centauri Empire has been around a *long* time, so they know better. It's pretty much a given that the Emperor's personal guard are very carefully chosen for their fanatical loyalty and questionable self preservation instincts.

Also, so long as there's random murder going around, chances are that his guards are the ones doing the dirty work, thus they are the least likely to be murdered. Questioning or calling attention to this state of affairs sound like a very unhealthy course of action to me.

The narn's reaction to being set free was weird. They were totally defeated when they started a war with the Centauri. now, with no military, they want to get revenge. That revenge would probably just end with the centauri decided to exterminate them, and the narn couldn't stop it. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that attack a force that destroyed you completely when you actually had weapons to fight them is only going to end badly for you.
Angry mobs and their mouthy leaders aren't often known for their capacity for rational thought. In that state of mind, he and others like him would probably attempt to assault Centauri Prime armed with nothing but cooking utensils and harsh language. Also, that guy was clearly drunk.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
...That is far different then telling me exactly how he dies.
Despite what you might think, you still don't know exactly how and why Londo dies. You just don't.
Reverend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 11:50 PM   #757
flavaflav
Commander
 
flavaflav's Avatar
 
Location: Illadelph
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Reverend wrote: View Post
Despite what you might think, you still don't know exactly how and why Londo dies. You just don't.
Kirk's world is gonna begin to shatter after he watches 'Into the Fire'
flavaflav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:09 AM   #758
kirk55555
Commodore
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

flavaflav wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Despite what you might think, you still don't know exactly how and why Londo dies. You just don't.
Kirk's world is gonna begin to shatter after he watches 'Into the Fire'

Into the Fire - First off, world not shattered This was an awesome episode, though. The fleet was cool, and the battle scenes this episode were good. The scene were Londo discovered that Morden killed the woman was great. I like how Londo beat Morden, and the shadows forces on his planet. Morden's final fate was exactly what Vir had predicted, which was cool. The big space fight was cool. Seeing Sheridan and delenn talk to both the vorlons and shadows was great. I liked how they stood up to them and got them to leave. Of course, the Shadows aren't completely gone (as seen in the future flashbacks). Either that, or the good guys find another evil race of untold power. Which means I'd have to edit

"Londo dies as a puppet of the shadows who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"

to

"Londo dies as a puppet of the [insert alien race name here] who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"

I can see why people would say I was wrong in that situation. Obviously, if the race that turned Londo into a puppet isn't the shadows, well then its a perfectly acceptable spoiler . I guess that would also mean he makes up for dealing with the shadows, but becomes the ally of another evil group of aliens, dying in disgrace anyway. So, its slightly different than what I expected, but I still know way too much about his death, and the fact that he dies a puppet after having allied with an evil race of aliens. Different, but still a spoiler that should never have been revealed.

Anyway, this was a great episode, but now we'll be going back to the Earth drama Can someone tell me now if The Illusion of Truth (which is coming up soon)is like the other news reporter episode? I could barely stand that one, and seeing it with people actively making propaganda for the Earth government would probably make me break something. Honestly, at this point either the earth and earth military are a) filled with horrible people that could have used a visit from Vorlon planet killer or b) filled with idiots who could probably drown on dry land. I've been glad that the earth stuff has been shoved to the side for awhile, but it looks to be making a comeback, more annoying than before. I'm honestly ok with some of it, and if it would just have more military people defect and maybe have a few continents on earth rebel I wouldn't have as big a problem, but I'm dreading the return of stories based on how humans are actually stupider as a race in the future then they are in 2013. I don't want to spend 40 minutes watching EarthGov propaganda. If its an episode told normally involving ISN, fine, but I'm not going to watch a story with the propaganda people told from their perspective.
kirk55555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:42 AM   #759
Nagisa Furukawa
Commander
 
Nagisa Furukawa's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Well, it is different from And Now for a Word so it won't be 45 minutes of in-universe ISN. It WILL be an episode about propaganda and its affect on society, but far from being "aren't humans dumb in the future?" I think The Illusion of Truth's points on editing and how things like this are assembled are as relevant today as ever. Perhaps even more so post-reality TV, something which uses many of the same techniques and methods as pointed out in the episode to make storylines and conflict that people believe are objective reality.
__________________
I am the one who guided you this far.
Nagisa Furukawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:47 AM   #760
kirk55555
Commodore
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

I have no desire to watch an episode on propaganda. I won't skip it totally, but I think I'll be relying heavily on the fast forward button to keep my sanity, something I haven't been doing with B5. I just can't stand B5's take on this stuff, with propaganda so obvious that a first grader would call bs on it. Don't say "Well, people believe stuff like this all the time". Thats not true, atleast in the more modern world. Sure, people in Iran or North korea may go along with that stuff, but if the US government tried this kind of stupid propaganda in 2013 it wouldn't work at all, so I can't believe it would work better in the future.

Note: this is not an opening to start a conversation on how "The US is already tricking you with propaganda", or any political discussion.
kirk55555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:51 AM   #761
Snatcher42
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Which means I'd have to edit

"Londo dies as a puppet of the shadows who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"

to

"Londo dies as a puppet of the [insert alien race name here] who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"
Well see, what we've been trying to say is... just as you had to edit "shadows" to "other alien race", there are other parts you'll have to edit before the end as well. And while each individual change may not seem like much, eventually you're looking at a completely different sentence than what you started with. That's the trick JMS was talking about.
Snatcher42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:57 AM   #762
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post

Note: this is not an opening to start a conversation on how "The US is already tricking you with propaganda", or any political discussion.
Too late.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 02:57 AM   #763
Nagisa Furukawa
Commander
 
Nagisa Furukawa's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I have no desire to watch an episode on propaganda. I won't skip it totally, but I think I'll be relying heavily on the fast forward button to keep my sanity, something I haven't been doing with B5. I just can't stand B5's take on this stuff, with propaganda so obvious that a first grader would call bs on it. Don't say "Well, people believe stuff like this all the time". Thats not true, atleast in the more modern world. Sure, people in Iran or North korea may go along with that stuff, but if the US government tried this kind of stupid propaganda in 2013 it wouldn't work at all, so I can't believe it would work better in the future.

Note: this is not an opening to start a conversation on how "The US is already tricking you with propaganda", or any political discussion.
All I'm going to say is that the specific kind of propaganda techniques discussed in The Illusion of Truth are used on American news everyday and doubly so for reality TV.
__________________
I am the one who guided you this far.
Nagisa Furukawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 03:02 AM   #764
Snatcher42
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
All I'm going to say is that the specific kind of propaganda techniques discussed in The Illusion of Truth are used on American news everyday and doubly so for reality TV.
As a reality TV editor, I can certainly say this is true. But we run circles around the obvious examples in The Illusion of Truth! Kirk, I doubt you'll like the episode, but it's not 45 minutes of propaganda, and I'd watch it to get an insight as to what's going on in the Earth administration, as (deliberately) frustrating as that may be. But first, the return of Bester in... Epiphanies!
Snatcher42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 03:09 AM   #765
kirk55555
Commodore
 
kirk55555's Avatar
 
Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Snatcher42 wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Which means I'd have to edit

"Londo dies as a puppet of the shadows who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"

to

"Londo dies as a puppet of the [insert alien race name here] who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy"
Well see, what we've been trying to say is... just as you had to edit "shadows" to "other alien race", there are other parts you'll have to edit before the end as well. And while each individual change may not seem like much, eventually you're looking at a completely different sentence than what you started with. That's the trick JMS was talking about.
You mean something like

"Londo dies as a puppet of Vir's Grandmother's knitting club who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his secret love child with a narn"

Or, if you'll permit me a few really stupid scenarios, maybe JMS was an old sci fi fan with connections in the BBC

"Londo (actually the 34th doctor [you'd want a bit of leeway with which version of the doctor he is]) dies as a puppet of the Dalek who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his lover (before regenerating, this time as a more ordinary british man)"

Or, if JMS is a horror fan

"Londo dies as a puppet of the Cuthulu who just manages to do one last good thing before his soul is put into the body of a living doll by the hands of his enemy (who is now in league with Chucky for some reason).

or

"Londo Tiberius molari dies as a puppet of the Borg who just manages to do one last good thing before he dies at the hands of his enemy, who was recently assimilated"

Personally, all of those will probably be as good as what actually happens, even though they're all just examples of me being sarcastic. To be clear, I'm still really liking B5 and its whole story in general (minus the idiotic earth propaganda stuff) and Londo's current stuff has been good. I'm just still angry at the stupid future stuff and remembering that it was written by the same guy who wrote Spider-Man: One More Day, Superman: Grounded and the worst pre reboot Wonder Woman story I've ever tried to read. I guess being exposed to his comic book work long before B5 has always made me a bit leery about his writing. To be fair, he's written some great comics (I liked a lot of his Spider-Man run, even though he wrote the worst SM story ever he did good before that and a lot of OMD is probably more Quesada's fault anyway) and most of B5 has been excellent. Its just that sometimes I remember that he has the potential to be a horrible writer too, and the B5 future stuff just reminds me of that.
kirk55555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
babylon 5, farscape

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.