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Old March 10 2013, 06:50 PM   #76
Greg Cox
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

I feel obliged to point out that EUREKA ran for five seasons (which is a decent run in an age when network shows rarely survive their first season) while WH13 is in its fourth season and is still going strong.

Compare that to, say, TERRA NOVA or ALCATRAZ or FLASHFORWARD or THE EVENT or THE SECRET CIRCLE or AWAKE or DOLLHOUSE or FIREFLY, etc.

I'm not sure where people got the idea that Syfy is quicker to cancel genre shows than anybody else. If anything, it seems to be the other way around . . . .
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Old March 10 2013, 07:12 PM   #77
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I'm not sure where people got the idea that Syfy is quicker to cancel genre shows than anybody else. If anything, it seems to be the other way around . . . .
Exactly. SF/fantasy shows generally die far more quickly on the big networks. Heck, already in the current season we've seen Last Resort and 666 Park Avenue premiere and get cancelled within a few months, Do No Harm die after two episodes, and Zero Hour get pulled after three episodes, while Cult is struggling and seems likely to be cancelled soon. It's been a pretty disastrous year for new genre shows on the networks, with the exception of Arrow and maybe Beauty and the Beast and Revolution.

Perhaps the perception of Syfy as a show-killer comes, paradoxically, from the fact that they do keep their genre shows on longer than most networks, long enough to win more of a loyal audience that's upset when they do come to an end, whereas the legion of fast-dying SF/F shows on the broadcast networks don't hang around long enough, or aren't good enough, for the audience to care as much about their ending. I know I'm a lot more upset about losing Alphas after two seasons than I was about losing Terra Nova, Awake, Alcatraz, or FlashForward after one.
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Old March 10 2013, 08:23 PM   #78
Greg Cox
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Yeah, I think the common perception that "Syfy cancels everything too soon!" stems from a few high-profile fan favorites (Farscape, SGU, whatever) that were perhaps cancelled before their time, despite the fact that even Farscape ran three or four seasons--which is longer than the original Star Trek did!

There's no rule that says every genre show is guaranteed a seven-year run!

(The EUREKA thing is particularly puzzling. I mean, it's not as though the show was murdered in its cradle. Most shows would be delighted to run five full seasons!)
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Old March 10 2013, 09:10 PM   #79
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

^Not to mention that the network gave Eureka an extra episode so they could wrap things up properly.

As for SGU, if people are lamenting its early cancellation, I think they're forgetting how much the fans complained about the show when it was on. The network can't keep a show around if the viewers don't respond to it. Similarly with Caprica -- the fan and critical reactions to it were mixed at best. Now, personally I quite liked SGU, and while I had mixed feelings about Caprica, I liked it better than BSG. But lots of other people apparently felt differently. Ditto with The Dresden Files -- I liked it okay, but fans of the books weren't crazy about it.

Now, I really liked Alphas and thought it was getting good reviews overall, but apparently its ratings weren't holding up. Still, it did get two seasons, which is more than most of the broadcast-network genre shows from the past couple of years have gotten.
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Old March 10 2013, 09:20 PM   #80
Greg Cox
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

And, for that matter, HAVEN is going into its fourth season, and BEING HUMAN is in its third . . .

(Counting down to inevitable comment: "'But . . . wrestling!")
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Old March 10 2013, 10:57 PM   #81
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Not that I disagree with the overall point you two are making, but with Farscape and Eureka, if I remember correctly, the shows were renewed and then the renewal was retracted. Ultimately, Eureka got one episode to tie things up instead of a season and later on Farscape got a mini-series a couple of years down the line.
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Old March 10 2013, 11:33 PM   #82
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

^But that's still a lot more than most network SF/F shows have historically gotten. Unless something's a big hit like Star Trek or Lost (or on the CW, which seems to drag its shows out indefinitely as a matter of course), even two seasons is an accomplishment, and getting the chance to do a real wrap-up like Dollhouse did is a luxury. Compared to most genre shows, Farscape and Eureka got lucky.

And Greg's right -- it makes no sense to put Eureka in the "cancelled early" list. After the Stargate and Galactica franchises, Eureka is the longest-running scripted original series in SciFi/Syfy's entire history. It's one of their biggest success stories. (And if you count it and Warehouse 13 as a shared universe, then it's the second longest-running franchise in the network's history. Although that's cheating a bit.)
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Old March 10 2013, 11:44 PM   #83
Greg Cox
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Not that I disagree with the overall point you two are making, but with Farscape and Eureka, if I remember correctly, the shows were renewed and then the renewal was retracted. Ultimately, Eureka got one episode to tie things up instead of a season and later on Farscape got a mini-series a couple of years down the line.

True enough. I can see where retracting a "promised" renewal would leave a bad taste in people's mouths and make them feel as though they had been "cheated" out of another season. As opposed to simply cancelling the show after four or five seasons.

But that's still more about perception than reality.

Just to add a bit of historical perspective:

LOST IN SPACE only ran three seasons. The original TWILIGHT ZONE only ran five seasons. THE OUTER LIMITS only ran two seasons. SPACE: 1999 only ran two seasons. The Adam West BATMAN series only ran three seasons. THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN only ran five seasons. THE INCREDIBLE HULK only ran five seasons. The original BATTLESTAR GALACTICA only ran one season (not counting GALACTICA 1980). BUCK ROGERS only ran two seasons. THE NIGHT STALKER, PLANET OF THE APES, and LOGAN'S RUN only lasted one season each.

Granted, seasons were longer back in the day, but I can't quite see where it's a scandal that a successful Syfy show only lasts for four or five years . . . .
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Old March 11 2013, 01:40 AM   #84
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Hell, at this point if a new show I like lasts past 5 episodes I'm happy.
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Old March 11 2013, 12:13 PM   #85
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

I got the idea from the Eureka drama, which reminded me of the Farscape drama. I also recall how excited everyone was when W13 was renewed for season 4, and IIRC we were told how 4 would be extended to 20 eps, only to have that plan be repacked into 2 - 10 ep "extended" season. Such a plan led to these predictions...

http://www.craveonline.com/tv/articl...et-20-episodes

Although its true W13 ran longer than FlashForward or Firefly on the major networks, that's not a fair comparison. With its 20 season 4 eps that gives 58 total for the series, vs 94 by the end of season 4 for ST Voyager (I have to relate everything to Voyager eventually. Its in the contract I signed for my pen name. ) or 172 eps by STV's 7th season end.
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Old March 11 2013, 01:37 PM   #86
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

I'm calling shenanigans.

The fae Star Chamber dark secret society 44 levels above Ash security clearance poisons young troubled Fae and then gives them a cure if it seems like they're going to turn their life around and stop being such a fuck up.

Just like the Trill Symbiosis Commission.

Just like that test where they drug the slayer till she has the strength of a small girl and lock her in a house with a vampire.

If most fae are nearly immortal, it only makes sense that they would need a means of controlling their birth rate, or life expectancy as to not endanger decimating thier live stock... However 6 billion humans is a steep jump and you would think that the fae would consider either a culling or increase their numbers to proportionally match the human population.

Bo is a dick politically, which is why they are fixing her dawning.
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Old March 11 2013, 02:11 PM   #87
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Will I understand Guy when I finish my season 2 dvds?
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Old March 11 2013, 02:29 PM   #88
Guy Gardener
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

What the frick are you doing in the season 3 thread?

It must be like time travel?

Sweeeeet!
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Old March 11 2013, 03:14 PM   #89
Christopher
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I got the idea from the Eureka drama, which reminded me of the Farscape drama.
Well, again, that "drama" is precisely the point. Naturally if a show is good and runs long enough to win a loyal following, then the fans are going to feel it was cancelled too soon no matter when it gets cancelled (unless it runs so long that it goes downhill/jumps the shark/etc.). Most of the shows that really get cancelled quickly never win much of a following, except for the few that are really good like Firefly. You won't hear many people saying that, oh, Alcatraz was cancelled too soon, because it wasn't that good to begin with.

So the whole "cancelled too soon" perception isn't really about duration, but about quality. Every show ends eventually, and very few shows are successful enough to run as much as 4-5 seasons, let alone longer. But the better ones are missed more.



Although its true W13 ran longer than FlashForward or Firefly on the major networks, that's not a fair comparison. With its 20 season 4 eps that gives 58 total for the series, vs 94 by the end of season 4 for ST Voyager...
Why are you referring to Warehouse 13 in the past tense? It's still on the air -- the second half of season 4 premieres next month. It hasn't been renewed for a 5th season yet, but it certainly hasn't been cancelled. True, the ratings for the first half-season were down from season 3, but the renewal/cancellation decision won't be made until the network sees how the next block of episodes performs. One article's pessimistic speculation does not a fact make.

As for the number of episodes, numbers don't always tell the whole story. Shows with long seasons -- especially as long as 26 episodes, a figure that the Trek shows stuck with well after the rest of network TV had slimmed down to 22 per season -- need to pad things out with "filler" episodes, or settle for filming mediocre scripts because they have a quota to fill. Shows with shorter seasons need to distill things to the essentials, pack the story arcs more tightly, etc. So you're not necessarily getting a smaller amount of worthwhile content just because there's a smaller number of episodes.
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Old March 11 2013, 05:02 PM   #90
Greg Cox
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Re: Lost Girl Season 3

Christopher wrote: View Post
Why are you referring to Warehouse 13 in the past tense? .
I admit I was wondering about that, too. Do you know something we don't?

(At which point I should point out that, regardless, my WH13 book is still on sale . . . .)
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