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Old March 10 2013, 11:11 AM   #16
Relayer1
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

propita wrote: View Post
I figured that if Irishness is tribal/clan and not geographic, then I'm not part-Irish. Anybody know enough?
At least one of my great grandparents were Irish from Cork/Kerry. It's interesting, but I'm English.

You're American.

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Old March 10 2013, 11:13 AM   #17
flandry84
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

I think that the op is asking whether or not they are "genetically"Irish.
Well sorry,but there is no such thing as an Irish race.
We(and I am Irish,living in Ireland)are as much a mongrel race as any other with Viking,Anglo-Saxon,Norman,and Celtic(whatever that means)blood.(Celts are either from the Iberian peninsula or central Europe,depends on what you believe.Maybe genetic groupings and markers will answer that question).
Take a quick gander at the names on for example the Irish rugby or soccer teams...a complete mix and match of both Irish and English sounding surnames.Surnames don't define heritage.
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Old March 10 2013, 11:29 AM   #18
JoeZhang
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

I was born in Wales but I'm English.
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Old March 10 2013, 01:10 PM   #19
TheGodBen
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

I agree with flandry, the Irish are mongrels. Saxon certainly isn't a common surname here, and almost certainly came here from England, but English settlers were common in Ireland for centuries and there was an eventual mingling of cultures that led to what is considered Irish today. By the mid-19th century, the traditional Irish tribes and clans weren't really an element or Irish society any more.

Just don't act like a plastic Paddy and we'll be cool.
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Old March 10 2013, 03:39 PM   #20
Deckerd
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Scots, on the other hand, are purebred. Thoroughbreds, you could say.
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Old March 10 2013, 03:48 PM   #21
JoeZhang
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Scots, on the other hand, are purebred. Thoroughbreds, you could say.
I thought you were all settlers who breed with/outbred the locals?
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Old March 10 2013, 05:13 PM   #22
thestrangequark
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Deckerd wrote: View Post
junxon wrote: View Post
just as long as you're not one of those americans whose ancestors were actually english, but insist they're part irish or scottish due to embarassment
Since English is the principal language in America, there's no getting away from it, is there?
I still think he made that up.

scotcat wrote: View Post
My great grandfather came to Scotland from Ireland at the age of 14 in 1914. I'm proud I have Irish ancestry, but first and foremost I'm Scottish.

I think it's brilliant to know where you came from and to know your family history (we've been able to take my mum's family tree back to the early 1700's), but that shouldn't change who you are now.
I guess I can see the history being interesting, like Miss Chicken's example. I just don't understand the desire for roots and connections that people seem to have. I do know a little bit about my ancestry. Basically, my mom's side is a bunch of Indians with a Norwegian chick thrown in somewhere a few generations back, and my dad's side is a bunch of white, Western European descended Cajuns with an Indian chick thrown in somewhere a few generations back. My aunt is really into genealogy, and traced my dad's side of the family back to 1590, and while the name of the ancestor was somewhat hilarious (Barbara Fricken-Schmidt), I didn't really have any sense of connection to any of it. People tend to speak about their distant ancestry with such ownership, but why someone who's great-great-great-great grandmother was Irish (or Greek or Spanish or whatever) want to take ownership of that? -- it's not like they know what it's like to actually be a part of that culture.

Maybe it's just something I'll never understand. I barely identify with the culture I was raised in!
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Old March 10 2013, 05:23 PM   #23
Deckerd
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Well since we all came from Cameroon, with a bit of southern European homo neanderthalensis thrown in, whatever you are is what happened from birth.
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Old March 10 2013, 05:24 PM   #24
1001001
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
auntiehill wrote: View Post
My feeling is this: if you have distant relatives who may have been from Ireland, lived in Ireland, etc, and you would LIKE to say you're part Irish....then you're part Irish. Hell, if you go back far enough, we're all bloody related, so if you want to be Irish, what the hell; go for it.
This is how I feel. Countries and tribes are social constructs. Families are genetically linked. Genealogy is interesting because it's about individuals and history. My grandfather was born in Ireland, and his story is interesting to me, but I was born in Boston. I also have recent ancestors from England and Norway. I feel no special connection to the cultures of Ireland, England or Norway-- my culture is the United States of the Groovy 60s-- but I can claim Irish, English and Norwegian ancestry.
This is very interesting to me.

My great-grandparents immigrated from Ireland in 1922, not long after the vote. My grandmother was the first one in our family born in the United States, in 1924.

I bear a solid Irish name, and the mark of the Catholic church (mostly, scars on my knuckles from rulers).

But I really don't identify much with the past. I am American. Maybe because it was so much easier for us to assimilate, there was not a need to hold on to where we came from? I don't know if this is coming out right, but it's something I've thought a lot about. Why do I not have this identification with my "home" country like some others do?

I don't think much about the "old ways" or the "old country". Sure I'd love to visit one day. I'm curious. But I don't have the overwhelming emotional attachment and/or longing that some people describe for their past. I live in the present.

I think sometimes "my great grandparents got the hell out of there for a reason!"...

I don't know. This is all very disjointed, and I apologize. I think the bottom line is we can all define ourselves, and many of those definitions will be arbitrary anyway (as auntiehill said earlier, go back far enough and we're all related).
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Old March 10 2013, 05:33 PM   #25
Maestro
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Next Sunday, we're all Irish.
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Old March 10 2013, 07:57 PM   #26
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

I think a general rule of thumb is to figure out when your ancestors went to Ireland. If they were connected with the Norman invasion of Ireland where the rulers went native, they're generally considered Irish (the name Fitzgerald indicates that you were the bastard son of Gerald of Wales, who helped lead the Norman invasion, but Fitzgerald is still considered an Irish name). However, if you're related to the Scottish Presbyterians who were transplanted to the Ulster area after Cromwell's invasion, you're generally considered Scots-Irish. I don't think name alone is an indicator, though.

Not that it really matters beyond curiosity.
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Old March 10 2013, 08:11 PM   #27
SmoothieX
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

gturner wrote: View Post
So the quickest way to figure out if your Irish is to check who issued your passport.
I was going to say something similar but you hit it out of the park.
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Old March 10 2013, 08:44 PM   #28
propita
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I agree with flandry, the Irish are mongrels. Saxon certainly isn't a common surname here, and almost certainly came here from England, but English settlers were common in Ireland for centuries and there was an eventual mingling of cultures that led to what is considered Irish today. By the mid-19th century, the traditional Irish tribes and clans weren't really an element or Irish society any more.

Just don't act like a plastic Paddy and we'll be cool.
The name itself isn't "Saxon" but might be a Saxon name...perfectly clear, right?

Well, since it isn't MY name...Allsworth--which doesn't sound Irish to me. Going back, someone spelled it Allworth. Might also have been spelled Alworth, Halworth, Ellsworth, Aylworth, etc....

It's more for curiosity, and I have time on my hands to do it. I'm told I need a hobby, so for now, this is helping. Beats cleaning my basement.

Yeah...I'm American. Very happily so. Third generation on Mom's side. Born in Hollywood, CA. That's right! A star was born that day! (The hospital is within the boundaries of Hollywood, an area of Los Angeles and not its own city.)

My 78yo Mom, never having had contact with her father or his family, was intrigued by this contact to finally learn something about him. All she wants is one nice photo and one question answered, "Was he a good man during his lifetime, someone she would've been proud of?" It matters to her, despite his never supporting her. My grandmother was...difficult is a very polite word (emotionally abusive is closer), so Mom's always been insecure.
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Old March 10 2013, 09:31 PM   #29
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Lots of different spellings of the same name.

In my case, going back: Bradley, Broadley, De Broadelegh. It all started with broad lea ""broad wood" or "broad clearing" in Old English".
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Old March 10 2013, 10:10 PM   #30
flandry84
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Re: Am I part Irish or not?

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Scots, on the other hand, are purebred. Thoroughbreds, you could say.
Must..resist...sheep...reference..
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