Descent was TNG's best 2-parter

TroiFan4ever · March 9 2013, 05:21 PM

My favorite scene... the way they ended the first hour...

Picard, Troi, Geordi, and the yellow shirt guy were in this big room looking for Data and I can't remember who but either Picard or Troi commented that the room looked like some kind of meeting hall (which was weird because that room is too big and there weren't any desks or tables or anything like that and it, too me, looked more like an alien gym).

Geordi's tricorder scan finds something dangerous so they decide they should get the hell out of there but as they turn to leave -- too late! Thousands or Borgs (does "Borg" have a plural form?

) come tearing into that big room surrounding them. All four of our people stop and go back toward each other armed with phasers.

The yellow shirt is about to shoot a Borg. He manages to get off one shot but a few Borg (or Borgs) shoot him down and kill him on the spot. That was dumb and funny to try to attempt to kill all those thousands of Borg drones. Think about it: 4 now 3 Starfleet officers vs. thousands of Borg drones. They're outnumbered.

The Borg take advantage of being outnumbered by closing in and ganging up on Picard, Troi, and Geordi about to hurt them but then who Picard think is Data comes up on the platform and shuts everyone up.

When Lore is protesting and shows them the real Data, the Borg shout out their approval and Troi, Picard, and Geordi have no choice but to look on that scene of madness.

I'm just wondering how hard it was to locate Data when he was in that room the entire time. He still had on his combadge so it should'nt have been that hard to find him. If my memory is straight, one group was looking for Data. I think that was Picard's Away Team as Worf and Riker were with Huge trying to find Picard, Geordi, and Troi.

And if Lore and Data are both robots, even if they have emotions, how is Troi able to sense feelings in them? I thought Troi could only read minds of living biological lifeforms.

By the way, that's an interesting way to start the New Years holiday 2370 (Pt. 1 ended Season 6 and Pt. 2 was Season 7's premiere)!

Oh, and in case anyone's interested, I just learned that the yellow shirt at the Aft Science Station working with the girl at the tactical station is Jo-Bril's human form.

For an overall review I think the 2-hour "Descent" episode was my favorite TNG 2-parter... just above "Gambit" because of Data going nuts and turning against the crew, Beverly being left having to watch the ship with minimal bridge crew, and that exciting scene with Picard, Troi, and Geordi in that big room being confronted by that big Borg army.

They must have had a REALLY Big budget to be able to afford all those extras and all those Borg costumes... which brings me to say this...

I found it interesting how the outpost where the first Away Team that got ambushed by Borg was the same outpost their party took place in the "Starship Mine" episode. I'm unclear... did Riker, Worf, Data, and the yellow shirt beam to the Akira Base or the Borg ship?

Oh and I love hearing Data speak in Picard's voice... when Data fooled Geordi into thinking Picard came to get him out of there.

This was just a great episode. I just wish I could forget the outcome of this episode so I can watch it again.

Mojochi · March 9 2013, 06:37 PM

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I find it entertaining, but if I were to rank it among TNG's 10 two-parters, it would place 6th

Best Of Both Worlds
All Good Things...
Chain Of Command
Redemption
Unification
Descent
Gambit
Time's Arrow
Encounter At Farpoint
Birthright

DalekJim · March 10 2013, 12:24 PM

Easily the weakest TNG Borg story. They're just Lore's bland henchmen.

Kirks_Flying_Wig · March 10 2013, 12:51 PM

Not a fan of Descent as a Borg story but it's an OK two-parter, with a few daft lines and hammy acting from Spiner thrown in.

"The sons of Soong have joined together, and together, we will destroy the Federation." is just about the worst line ever spoken on TNG.

King Daniel Into Darkness · March 10 2013, 12:51 PM

Descent was awful. First, they ruined the Borg by making them individuals. Thank goodness First Contact totally ignored this episode. And then there's useless doctor Beverly Crusher and two nobodies easily destroying an enourmous Borg ship. And people complain about Janeway evading and defeating the Borg in Voyager

CorporalCaptain · March 10 2013, 01:33 PM

King Daniel wrote:

Descent was awful.

It was.

And then there's useless doctor Beverly Crusher and two nobodies easily destroying an enourmous Borg ship.

Actually, this was my favorite part of the episode (faint praise, of course).

At least these three weren't utterly incompetent like the rest of the crew. I mean, let's just bumble right into getting captured, shall we?

And at least the Crusher C-plot didn't involve subjecting the main cast, and us, to predictable and protracted clichés. Did anyone believe for one second that Data was actually going to melt Geordi's brain?

Finn · March 10 2013, 03:16 PM

For me, I think it was the worst two-parter. I never bought into the whole Lore controlling a bunch of ex Borg drones thing.

Pavonis · March 10 2013, 04:01 PM

"Thousands" of Borg drones? Hardly. More like dozens, if that. Most of the drone extras were mirrored for the scene where they rush in.

Sorry, Troi fan, but you may be the only person who likes "Descent", parts one or two. At least someone does.

DalekJim · March 10 2013, 04:22 PM

TNG's best 2-parter was Chain of Command. Best of Both Worlds is great but it's really just a blockbuster action story and doesn't have any depth. Seeing it overtake The Inner Light, Darmok or Yesterday's Enterprise in polls for Best TNG Episode makes me sad.

sonak · March 10 2013, 05:08 PM

weak two-parter. Data's "descent" is very obviously externally caused from the scene way back in part I with the Borg in the brig. The episode makes the Borg look more like Ferengi or Klingons than what made them interesting. The "Crusher in command" subplot was silly as well.

some good action and Spiner's performance as Lore are pluses though. And hey, at least it's not "birthright."

Dale Sams · March 10 2013, 07:03 PM

I enjoyed Data's badassesness against the Borg he fought. And the ruthlessness in dissecting his sentient brother rather than giving him anything resmbling due process. And of course Lore's parting barb, "I love you brotherrrrrr....."

jimbotron · March 10 2013, 07:36 PM

I've always thought Gambit was the worst two-parter. It's so slow and boring. It easily could have been trimmed down to one episode.

Gambit, Descent and Birthright are snoozefests that I usually skip.

TNG got weaker with each of its season cliffhangers. BOBW was excellent, Redemption was good, Time's Arrow was OK, and Descent was meh, IMO.

JarodRussell · March 10 2013, 07:50 PM

Yeah, it was quite decent.

Finn · March 10 2013, 08:15 PM

jimbotron wrote:

I've always thought Gambit was the worst two-parter. It's so slow and boring. It easily could have been trimmed down to one episode.

Gambit, Descent and Birthright are snoozefests that I usually skip.

TNG got weaker with each of its season cliffhangers. BOBW was excellent, Redemption was good, Time's Arrow was OK, and Descent was meh, IMO.

Yes, Gambit could have been an one-parter easily, but it didn't have the absurdness Descent had.

Praetorian · March 10 2013, 09:10 PM

All the interesting threads set up in the first part are either forgotten or resolved in the most uninteresting of ways. Let's see:

The morality of Picard's decision to spare Hugh versus the utility of it. This is brought up by the Admiral in the first part, and Picard seems to be willing to concede that he might have been wrong. Simply forgotten in the second part. Having Hugh aiding the heroes does not adress this!

The concept that there are not bad emotions, only bad actions, and that good things can come from such "bad" emotions. Simply forgotten, Data is just fed bad emotions, acts like a jerk, and doesn't come around on his own. We could have had growth for Data, but no...

Lore waging war against the Federation. Again, dropped. Lore just spends the second part walking around and giving Data his next fix. Didn't he say he was going to destroy the Federation?

And then we have the absurdity of the entire command staff beaming down and leaving the medical officer in charge... Really? I know they were probably "preparing" the fans for Voyager (because female captains are something trek fans are unfamiliar with...if only one of the Enterprises had been commanded by one...), but it makes zero sense.

Loads of treknobabble, specially during the prison break, with Picard talking about kedion pulses and other similar nonsense. In fact, in these episodes the amount of treknobable spewed by Picard is just ridiculous. If I remember correctly, he algo gives technicall insight on how to navigate the corridors. What? Picard was never a scientist...

Such a waste...

March 9 2013, 05:21 PM	#1
TroiFan4ever Lieutenant Commander Location: Philadelphia, PA	Descent was TNG's best 2-parter My favorite scene... the way they ended the first hour... Picard, Troi, Geordi, and the yellow shirt guy were in this big room looking for Data and I can't remember who but either Picard or Troi commented that the room looked like some kind of meeting hall (which was weird because that room is too big and there weren't any desks or tables or anything like that and it, too me, looked more like an alien gym). Geordi's tricorder scan finds something dangerous so they decide they should get the hell out of there but as they turn to leave -- too late! Thousands or Borgs (does "Borg" have a plural form? ) come tearing into that big room surrounding them. All four of our people stop and go back toward each other armed with phasers. The yellow shirt is about to shoot a Borg. He manages to get off one shot but a few Borg (or Borgs) shoot him down and kill him on the spot. That was dumb and funny to try to attempt to kill all those thousands of Borg drones. Think about it: 4 now 3 Starfleet officers vs. thousands of Borg drones. They're outnumbered. The Borg take advantage of being outnumbered by closing in and ganging up on Picard, Troi, and Geordi about to hurt them but then who Picard think is Data comes up on the platform and shuts everyone up. When Lore is protesting and shows them the real Data, the Borg shout out their approval and Troi, Picard, and Geordi have no choice but to look on that scene of madness. I'm just wondering how hard it was to locate Data when he was in that room the entire time. He still had on his combadge so it should'nt have been that hard to find him. If my memory is straight, one group was looking for Data. I think that was Picard's Away Team as Worf and Riker were with Huge trying to find Picard, Geordi, and Troi. And if Lore and Data are both robots, even if they have emotions, how is Troi able to sense feelings in them? I thought Troi could only read minds of living biological lifeforms. By the way, that's an interesting way to start the New Years holiday 2370 (Pt. 1 ended Season 6 and Pt. 2 was Season 7's premiere)! Oh, and in case anyone's interested, I just learned that the yellow shirt at the Aft Science Station working with the girl at the tactical station is Jo-Bril's human form. For an overall review I think the 2-hour "Descent" episode was my favorite TNG 2-parter... just above "Gambit" because of Data going nuts and turning against the crew, Beverly being left having to watch the ship with minimal bridge crew, and that exciting scene with Picard, Troi, and Geordi in that big room being confronted by that big Borg army. They must have had a REALLY Big budget to be able to afford all those extras and all those Borg costumes... which brings me to say this... I found it interesting how the outpost where the first Away Team that got ambushed by Borg was the same outpost their party took place in the "Starship Mine" episode. I'm unclear... did Riker, Worf, Data, and the yellow shirt beam to the Akira Base or the Borg ship? Oh and I love hearing Data speak in Picard's voice... when Data fooled Geordi into thinking Picard came to get him out of there. This was just a great episode. I just wish I could forget the outcome of this episode so I can watch it again. __________________ All aboard for Vertiform City!

March 9 2013, 06:37 PM	#2
Mojochi Fleet Captain	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter I'm glad you enjoyed it. I find it entertaining, but if I were to rank it among TNG's 10 two-parters, it would place 6th Best Of Both Worlds All Good Things... Chain Of Command Redemption Unification Descent Gambit Time's Arrow Encounter At Farpoint Birthright

March 10 2013, 12:24 PM	#3
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter Easily the weakest TNG Borg story. They're just Lore's bland henchmen. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin

March 10 2013, 12:51 PM	#4
Kirks_Flying_Wig Commander Location: London	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter Not a fan of Descent as a Borg story but it's an OK two-parter, with a few daft lines and hammy acting from Spiner thrown in. "The sons of Soong have joined together, and together, we will destroy the Federation." is just about the worst line ever spoken on TNG.

March 10 2013, 12:51 PM	#5
King Daniel Into Darkness Admiral Location: On holiday. Regular service will resume on July 6.	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter Descent was awful. First, they ruined the Borg by making them individuals. Thank goodness First Contact totally ignored this episode. And then there's useless doctor Beverly Crusher and two nobodies easily destroying an enourmous Borg ship. And people complain about Janeway evading and defeating the Borg in Voyager __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3

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March 10 2013, 03:16 PM	#7
Finn Vice Admiral Location: West of Boston	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter For me, I think it was the worst two-parter. I never bought into the whole Lore controlling a bunch of ex Borg drones thing.

March 10 2013, 04:01 PM	#8
Pavonis Commodore Location: South Dakota	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter "Thousands" of Borg drones? Hardly. More like dozens, if that. Most of the drone extras were mirrored for the scene where they rush in. Sorry, Troi fan, but you may be the only person who likes "Descent", parts one or two. At least someone does.

March 10 2013, 04:22 PM	#9
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter TNG's best 2-parter was Chain of Command. Best of Both Worlds is great but it's really just a blockbuster action story and doesn't have any depth. Seeing it overtake The Inner Light, Darmok or Yesterday's Enterprise in polls for Best TNG Episode makes me sad. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin

March 10 2013, 05:08 PM	#10
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter weak two-parter. Data's "descent" is very obviously externally caused from the scene way back in part I with the Borg in the brig. The episode makes the Borg look more like Ferengi or Klingons than what made them interesting. The "Crusher in command" subplot was silly as well. some good action and Spiner's performance as Lore are pluses though. And hey, at least it's not "birthright."

March 10 2013, 07:03 PM	#11
Dale Sams Captain	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter I enjoyed Data's badassesness against the Borg he fought. And the ruthlessness in dissecting his sentient brother rather than giving him anything resmbling due process. And of course Lore's parting barb, "I love you brotherrrrrr....."

March 10 2013, 07:36 PM	#12
jimbotron Commander Location: Bay Area, CA	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter I've always thought Gambit was the worst two-parter. It's so slow and boring. It easily could have been trimmed down to one episode. Gambit, Descent and Birthright are snoozefests that I usually skip. TNG got weaker with each of its season cliffhangers. BOBW was excellent, Redemption was good, Time's Arrow was OK, and Descent was meh, IMO.

March 10 2013, 07:50 PM	#13
JarodRussell Vice Admiral	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter Yeah, it was quite decent. __________________ lol l /\

March 10 2013, 09:10 PM	#15
Praetorian Captain	Re: Descent was TNG's best 2-parter All the interesting threads set up in the first part are either forgotten or resolved in the most uninteresting of ways. Let's see: The morality of Picard's decision to spare Hugh versus the utility of it. This is brought up by the Admiral in the first part, and Picard seems to be willing to concede that he might have been wrong. Simply forgotten in the second part. Having Hugh aiding the heroes does not adress this! The concept that there are not bad emotions, only bad actions, and that good things can come from such "bad" emotions. Simply forgotten, Data is just fed bad emotions, acts like a jerk, and doesn't come around on his own. We could have had growth for Data, but no... Lore waging war against the Federation. Again, dropped. Lore just spends the second part walking around and giving Data his next fix. Didn't he say he was going to destroy the Federation? And then we have the absurdity of the entire command staff beaming down and leaving the medical officer in charge... Really? I know they were probably "preparing" the fans for Voyager (because female captains are something trek fans are unfamiliar with...if only one of the Enterprises had been commanded by one...), but it makes zero sense. Loads of treknobabble, specially during the prison break, with Picard talking about kedion pulses and other similar nonsense. In fact, in these episodes the amount of treknobable spewed by Picard is just ridiculous. If I remember correctly, he algo gives technicall insight on how to navigate the corridors. What? Picard was never a scientist... Such a waste... __________________ E Pluribus Unum!