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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 9 2013, 10:02 AM   #1
Lance
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A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

... I ask it here because it's got a sort of link to DS9.

I've been re-reading the Reeves-Stevens' book The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine recently, and there's one section during the post-production of an episode ("In The Hands of the Prophets") where a story is told about a single close-up shot of Sisko where for some reason the actual film footage was unsuitable. It had a problem. This was corrected digitally at the time, so that they didn't need to get everybody down to the promenade set again just to do one shot.

Now, assuming that film footage still exists... presumably it would have whatever the problem was that the team found in the first place. The raw film stock hasn't been fixed, that was done in Post after it was transfered to tape. Would this mean that the team behind a hypothetical HD remaster of this episode would need to remember to do the 'correction' when it came time to revisit "In The Hands Of The Prophets"? Would there be a note somewhere to warn them that the shot needs fixing, or would they simply fix it as a matter of course? Or would they, indeed, need to upscale the SD source in order to get it to look how its supposed to look? I assume they'd be able to digitally fix it if the trouble was something like scratches on the film...
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Old March 9 2013, 10:16 AM   #2
Tosk
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Lance wrote: View Post
Or would they, indeed, need to upscale the SD source in order to get it to look how its supposed to look?
Why would they not be able to do something that was possible two decades ago?

If I remember correctly, wasn't it just that the shot was mildly out of focus?
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Old March 9 2013, 10:37 AM   #3
Tiberius
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Lance wrote: View Post
... I ask it here because it's got a sort of link to DS9.

I've been re-reading the Reeves-Stevens' book The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine recently, and there's one section during the post-production of an episode ("In The Hands of the Prophets") where a story is told about a single close-up shot of Sisko where for some reason the actual film footage was unsuitable. It had a problem. This was corrected digitally at the time, so that they didn't need to get everybody down to the promenade set again just to do one shot.

Now, assuming that film footage still exists... presumably it would have whatever the problem was that the team found in the first place. The raw film stock hasn't been fixed, that was done in Post after it was transfered to tape. Would this mean that the team behind a hypothetical HD remaster of this episode would need to remember to do the 'correction' when it came time to revisit "In The Hands Of The Prophets"? Would there be a note somewhere to warn them that the shot needs fixing, or would they simply fix it as a matter of course? Or would they, indeed, need to upscale the SD source in order to get it to look how its supposed to look? I assume they'd be able to digitally fix it if the trouble was something like scratches on the film...
It's a good book. Very interesting.

The problem in question was that part of the footage was slightly out of focus. Given the huge advancements in technology that have been made since the ep was filmed, it's entirely possible that they would be able to correct the problem. However, even if they can't, the problem exists on the film original and will be apparent to anyone who is readying the film for HD.
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Old March 9 2013, 11:17 AM   #4
Lance
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Cheers Tiberius. I agree, it's an excellent book, truly in-depth.

I'm also glad to hear it was just a focus issue (I'm afraid the trouble in question eluded me when I read it). I guess this more of a general query. If the film stock for any given scene is found to still be available, but is seriously damaged in some way, I suppose the only recourse would be to upscale the SD version? Or would they be able to use an alternative-but-slightly-different take? The book does make a point of telling us that many scenes were shot multiple times "for safety", so if the exact take that wasn't used in the episode originally proved to be unservicable, they might still have one which is 'good enough', without having to upscale like they did on the 'Next Level' sampler disc?

I apologise if I'm showing my naivety on the exact processes involved, it's just something that occured to me as a possible hitch to efforts in remastering. I genuinely wondered what the procedure would be in such a situation.
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Old March 9 2013, 11:24 AM   #5
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

TNG season 2 already used alternate takes for several shots, so that's definitely a possibility. One that I would prefer to upscaling, that's for sure.
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Old March 10 2013, 07:13 AM   #6
Tiberius
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Lance wrote: View Post
Cheers Tiberius. I agree, it's an excellent book, truly in-depth.

I'm also glad to hear it was just a focus issue (I'm afraid the trouble in question eluded me when I read it). I guess this more of a general query. If the film stock for any given scene is found to still be available, but is seriously damaged in some way, I suppose the only recourse would be to upscale the SD version? Or would they be able to use an alternative-but-slightly-different take? The book does make a point of telling us that many scenes were shot multiple times "for safety", so if the exact take that wasn't used in the episode originally proved to be unservicable, they might still have one which is 'good enough', without having to upscale like they did on the 'Next Level' sampler disc?

I apologise if I'm showing my naivety on the exact processes involved, it's just something that occured to me as a possible hitch to efforts in remastering. I genuinely wondered what the procedure would be in such a situation.
It's certainly a possibility that they could use film stock of a different take. But that's assuming that the takes which weren't used were even kept.
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Old March 10 2013, 07:35 AM   #7
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

I must have shrouded and not realized it.
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Old March 10 2013, 01:03 PM   #8
Tiberius
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Tosk wrote: View Post
TNG season 2 already used alternate takes for several shots, so that's definitely a possibility. One that I would prefer to upscaling, that's for sure.
Really? Is there a list of where these alternate takes are used?
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Old March 10 2013, 01:07 PM   #9
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Is there a list of where these alternate takes are used?
Not that I know of, but...

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Old March 13 2013, 12:30 PM   #10
LogicDeLuxe
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Re: A question about remastering DS9 for HD...

Tosk wrote: View Post
TNG season 2 already used alternate takes for several shots, so that's definitely a possibility. One that I would prefer to upscaling, that's for sure.
I guess, if there were a better take, they'd used that back then in the first place instead of fixing a bad shot.

What I'm more curious about is the cause of the massive grain in DS9 season 7 in many scenes. I hope, they will be able to deal with that without filtering the image to death.
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