Farscape or Babylon 5?

[kirk55555]

hyzmarca wrote:

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Most battlecrabs are effectively just drone ships "piloted" by cybernetically modified humans like those seen in Ship of Tears, which is why they're vulnerable to telepaths and why the Shadows wanted telepaths.

It's worth noting that we've never really seen a ship piloted by an actual Shadow.

I phrased that wrong. I wasn't confused or thought using telepaths came out of nowhere (the episode with Bester and the frozen telepathswas just a few episodes a go) I was just mentioning that it turned out they were right about using telepaths, which I had already guessed would be the case.

JD wrote:

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But we didn't get ALL of the answers. We got a small glimpse of one part of a long series of events that take place over the rest of the series and beyond. Why can't you just accept what we are telling about there being more to all of this than you think? It's not like they sat down and talked in detail about every detail of what happened between the present day stuff and the future stuff. It's just a hint about what's to come, and doesn't give all of the details.
And you keep talking about stuff being spoiled, but it really can't be a spoiling anything if it is being done in the manner it was originally intended to be told.

Ok, this is the last comment about this I think I'll answer, for the sake of not clogging the thread anymore. We didn't get all the answers about every little thing Londo does, he could still do stuff that effects the war and other people in ways I can't guess. but, his personal story arc about himself, what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered. There is no mystery as to what happens in the end. sure, they don't tell us exactly how he gets there, but we know the destination, which means the questions that were a big part of his personal story have been answered, making his personal story pointless because you know what his big choice will be at the end, he stays an ally of the shadows and doesn't get redemption (atleast until the very end, where he saves Delenn and Sheapard and has G'Kar stop him from being a puppet anymore).

Neroon wrote:

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There is little point in belaboring this matter until you've seen more of the series, kirk. I suggest moving on and revisiting this later. Much later.

Yeah, I think you're right. like I said above, the conversation about Londo's personal story isn't going anywhere. We're not going to agree. There is much more stuff to talk about with B5. I'll still watch and enjoy Londo's stuff, regardless of wether his scenes involving his personal story arc have any point going forward.

[kirk55555]

Accidental double post

[sojourner]

kirk55555 wrote:

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Ok, this is the last comment about this I think I'll answer, for the sake of not clogging the thread anymore. We didn't get all the answers about every little thing Londo does, he could still do stuff that effects the war and other people in ways I can't guess. but, his personal story arc about himself, what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered. There is no mystery as to what happens in the end. sure, they don't tell us exactly how he gets there, but we know the destination, which means the questions that were a big part of his personal story have been answered, making his personal story pointless because you know what his big choice will be at the end, he stays an ally of the shadows and doesn't get redemption (atleast until the very end, where he saves Delenn and Sheapard and has G'Kar stop him from being a puppet anymore).

The simple answer to your supposition here: your wrong about what happens. Watch and see. Open your mind Grasshopper.

[hyzmarca]

kirk55555 wrote:

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They're both great actors (and my slave comment was mostly sarcastic) although I didn't really feel the friend thing. Unless G'Kar joins the shadows, I doubt he'd befriend a guiy who has helped the shadows so much. I could see Londo having G'Kar brought there to kill him because no one else would. That part doesn't really matter, anyway. I'm fine with that being their fate, its been hinted at enough anyway, the two mortal enemies killing each other.

Thankfully, And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place is next.

My hate for the future part is about the fact that the stuff that was more up in the air, like Londo changing his mind about the shadows sometime during the show, not over a decade after, that we now know the answers too.

Your assumption is wrong. Your assumption is completely wrong.

[Sindatur]

kirk55555 wrote:

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Grey 17 is Missing - More Franklin stuff. He's a bit annoying this episode. I kind of wish Ivanova had refused to leave him alone, and just beat the info out of him. He was going to withhold info that could be vital to the war with the shadows because he wanted his personal space. The Minbari warrior caste is back, and the guy shows they are still stupid. did he seriously believe the rangers would follow him? If pushed, they'd probably all just quit, make a new group with a different name, and follow Delenn anyway. Also, apparently the warrior is the Minbari version of batman, judging from his dissappearing act I figured Lennier would find a way to stop the warrior regardless of his promise, and Marcus was the best choice. The missing section in grey sector is interesting, and it definately had potential. Little did I know that Garibaldi would be captured by the B5 version of mole people. Not only that, but the lead mole man is easily the most annoying character thats been on the show so far. I could barely decipher his gibberish most of the time, and he just wouldn't shut up. I was hoping Garibaldi would get his gun back and shoot him, but I guess getting rough with him was better than nothing. The Marcus/warrior fight was cool, even though Marcus got beat pretty badly. The monster in B5 looked cool, although I wish Garibaldi had managed to feed the annoying mole man to him. I'm not sure if the homemade guy thing actually makes sense, but it was interesting. Overall, this was an ok episode, and Delenn's stuff was decent, but the Grey 17 parts were not great. I think it had a lot of potential, and I was interested in those parts, but the end result didn't live up to what I thought it would be. It ended up being mostly annoying because of the mole man who wouldn't stop saying stupid stuff. He was beyond irritating.

Yea, Grey 17 is Missing gets unfairly put on many bottom 3 or 5 episode lists. The Garibaldi stuff in Section Grey17 didn't come off successfully and is pretty bad, (especially measuring against the rest of B5), but, the Minbari stuff with Neroon (Our Moderator's Namesake), Marcus, Delenn and Lennier is great, and is important to the arc, such as establishing Delenn as Sinclair's replacement as En'til'zha.

If the episode was named for the Minbari stuff, I think it would go higher on alot of people's list. As it is, people think of the episode and the first thing that comes to mind is Jeremiah and the Zarg and the homemade cannon, and it gets thrown to the bottom of the dumpster with little more thought

[kirk55555]

I didn't think the whole episode was that bad, but the Grey 17 stuff seemed like it could've be interesting. A whole missing/sealed off section? They could have done some cool stuff with that idea. Instead, it was just really, really annoying. The delenn stuff was interesting, and important, I just wish they had gone a different route with the Grey 17 stuff.

[Sindatur]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I didn't think the whole episode was that bad, but the Grey 17 stuff seemed like it could've be interesting. A whole missing/sealed off section? They could have done some cool stuff with that idea. Instead, it was just really, really annoying. The delenn stuff was interesting, and important, I just wish they had gone a different route with the Grey 17 stuff.

And Robert Englund too, who woulda thought it would turn out missing the mark by so much.

[Snatcher42]

The problem with the Londo stuff is that it's hard for us to respond without getting into spoilers. Kirk, I'm gonna reply one more time, not to be argumentative or anything, but just in that hope that you'll be able to enjoy this great arc of the show. If not, well, again lets just revisit it later on.

kirk55555 wrote:

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what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered.

Hmm, see, it really hasn't. You only think it has. I'm gonna put the next part in a spoiler tag. It's not super specific or anything, but you may still want to hold off on it. Your choice.

You're assuming the shadows (or whoever they are) are on Centauri Prime because Londo is their ally. But couldn't there be other explanations for what you saw? Londo's actions may not make sense in any other context yet, but you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle. If you have time, go back and re-watch these scenes. The hints are there.

And that's the last thing I'll say about it for now.

[flavaflav]

The Marcus/Neroon/Delenn story is definitely my favorite part of 'Grey 17'. The rest is meh. Neroon is another cool character. Always dug when he popped up in an episode. Another character with a good arc.

[sojourner]

Snatcher42 wrote:

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You're assuming the shadows (or whoever they are) are on Centauri Prime because Londo is their ally. But couldn't there be other explanations for what you saw? Londo's actions may not make sense in any other context yet, but you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle. If you have time, go back and re-watch these scenes. The hints are there.

And that's the last thing I'll say about it for now.

Yeah, that's definitely too spoilery for Kirk55555's taste. I recommend that he not read it. Just suffice it to say that what he thinks he knows is wrong.

[Gov Kodos]

sojourner wrote:

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Yeah, that's definitely too spoilery for Kirk55555's taste. I recommend that he not read it. Just suffice it to say that what he thinks he knows is wrong.

No one is what they seem on B5.

[Pemmer Harge]

They're both ace, but Babylon 5 for me, I just love it so much!

Ah, the '90s. The golden age of genre TV.

[JD]

This thread inspired to start a rewatch, in chronological order this time. I started with In The Beginning, which I loved. I kind of forgot just how good the show was when it was good.

[Lindley]

kirk55555 wrote:

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Wow, Farscape will apparently never stop haunting me

Just trying to make a point. You have a tendency to cling with absolutely certainty to your preconceptions even when told they are wrong. Try to let the story unfold as it will.

[Aeon]

Lindley wrote:

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Just trying to make a point. You have a tendency to cling with absolutely certainty to your preconceptions even when told they are wrong. Try to let the story unfold as it will.

Indeed.