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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 7 2013, 03:14 PM   #16
DalekJim
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.
Seems like a pretty huge leap. Especially considering Spock's duties on Romulus.
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Old March 7 2013, 04:00 PM   #17
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm kinda irritated Abrams settled on Romulus as the planet to be destroyed in the Prime universe as it was probably the most interesting society he could have removed. I'd rather he blew up Betazed.
Sidestepping any arguments about the interesting/non-interesting aspects of Romulus, what does that matter anyway? Romulus is still around in the nuUniverse, and can still be focused upon in whatever happens in this universe in the future (and quite frankly I'd rather see a 23rd century nuRomulus than a 24th century Prime universe Romulus anyway).

And Betazed? Really?
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Old March 7 2013, 04:07 PM   #18
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Eh, I always assumed Romulus was screwed over anyway. Even before it got destroyed in XI I always figured what we saw in AGT (Romulus getting conquered by the Klingons) would come to pass.
And looking at STO's backstory and its resemblance to the backstory of the All Good Things future they seem to be operating from that assumption as well seeing

King Daniel wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
I maintain it makes zero sense that Nero plots to destroy Earth and the Federation because the friendly Vulcan that went out of his way to help Romulus arrived a bit too late.
Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.
Yep, when you think about it the federation gets to survive and one of their major rivals is taken out. I can see where one can be suspicious of that coincidence.
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Old March 7 2013, 06:27 PM   #19
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
My point is, the story of Romulan miners thrown back in time and lashing out against the Federation in vengeance makes more sense if Romulus were destroyed than it would have if Betazed were.
How about basing a plot on something other than a planet being destroyed? It's too Death-Star-ish.
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Old March 7 2013, 06:34 PM   #20
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

DalekJim wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.
Seems like a pretty huge leap. Especially considering Spock's duties on Romulus.

In STO, there's a little fyi fact shown during load time that says Picard and Spock went to the Vulcan High Command (whatever its called) and asked for help in assisting Romulus. They were rebuffed. This delay probably did in Romulus.

I have no idea if this is fleshed out in STO. If so, I haven't got there yet.
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Old March 7 2013, 06:39 PM   #21
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Seems like a pretty huge leap. Especially considering Spock's duties on Romulus.
Some people actually think that the first WTC plane was a hologram.
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Old March 7 2013, 06:50 PM   #22
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
In STO, there's a little fyi fact shown during load time that says Picard and Spock went to the Vulcan High Command (whatever its called) and asked for help in assisting Romulus. They were rebuffed. This delay probably did in Romulus.

I have no idea if this is fleshed out in STO. If so, I haven't got there yet.
That's from the Countdown comic prequel to the movie, which STO uses as backstory.
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Old March 7 2013, 07:36 PM   #23
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Well, yes, Nero's a terrible villain, that's not in dispute. I just don't see how thing would be improved if Betazed were destroyed as opposed to Romulus.
As a character, he was inarguably a weak villain. But he was the type of villain this story needed. In a way (just in a way) he was a MacGuffin. He was just the excuse for all the action. He was a one-dimensional pissed off guy with a big gun and he had to be stopped. But while he had to be stopped, the real goal of the movie was the bring the original seven together on the Enterprise.
Now, a villain like him in a movie where the seven are a crew and more established (like in "Into Darkness") would be indeed terrible. I'll bet credits to navy beans we don't have to worry about that, though.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Well, I was taking the piss mainly. Obviously there's gonna be zero drama out of destroying Betazed whatsoever as nobody gives a fuck about Troi and Lwaxana.

Still iritated Abrams destroyed Romulus though before the inevitable unification with Vulcan could take place. Especially as he then destroyed Vulcan in the Jar Jar timeline so now we can't get unification in either universe. Ideally I'd have had the next Trek movie (Or preferably, a new TV show!) set a century or two after TNG and have had the Romulans be friendlier ala the Klingons in TNG/DS9.
Well, it's the storytelling decision they made, and we have to live with it. Still, if someone wrote an "imaginary tale" of unification (like the DC Comics "imaginary stories"), I'm sure it would have its buyers.
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Old March 8 2013, 03:47 AM   #24
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Still iritated Abrams destroyed Romulus though before the inevitable unification with Vulcan could take place.
Or maybe this is the one thing that will finally bring about the reunifcation? There must be millions of Romulans off-world by the time Romulus was destroyed, so maybe they decide to make Vulcan their new "home planet".
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Old March 8 2013, 03:57 AM   #25
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

Path to 2409 describes the empire trying to decide on a new capital from among their remaining worlds.
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Old March 8 2013, 10:00 AM   #26
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Path to 2409 describes the empire trying to decide on a new capital from among their remaining worlds.
Which they already settled on its just weirdly in federation space apparently, honestly I blame the map for that one.

They also have a new group led by a member of the reunification movement who have also settled on a new planet after the Empire goes civil warish later in the game, really nice guy and really nice new planet you get to help them settle into.
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Old March 8 2013, 11:45 AM   #27
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I maintain it makes zero sense that Nero plots to destroy Earth and the Federation because the friendly Vulcan that went out of his way to help Romulus arrived a bit too late.
The plot definitely would have made more sense if the Federation actually was the cause of the star blowing up and the death of the miner's families. Something like Starfleet was trying to stabilize a star inside the Empire and it went all wrong.

Franklin wrote: View Post
Now, a villain like him in a movie where the seven are a crew and more established (like in "Into Darkness") would be indeed terrible. I'll bet credits to navy beans we don't have to worry about that, though.
I'll take that bet. For the movie's villain, we're going to get yet another mentally unbalanced individual, who blames the Federation for something that happen to him, and feels justified in seeking some form of revenge.

Of course if that not essentially the (tired old) plot of the next movie, I'll apologize.

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Old March 8 2013, 05:46 PM   #28
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

I've listened to a bit of it. 47:35 is then the Abrams stuff comes up, and it's about the Countdown comic. The guy says the original script for Countdown killed Worf, Picard and Riker and destroyed Earth, and it was them (Cryptic) saying how badly it would screw up their story for STO that got it changed.

The stuff about the novels (which comes up earlier) is basically the guy being suprised that CBS has allowed the novels to make the big changes in the Trekverse that they have, and him speculating that they might not care or read them because they wouldn't ever allow STO to make similar changes.
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Old March 8 2013, 06:50 PM   #29
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.
What does that have to do with Earth?

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.
So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.
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Old March 8 2013, 07:19 PM   #30
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Re: Abrams wanted to blow up more than Romulus

Jeyl wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
Wheras I say it's more than plausible that, after 200+ years of Romulan/Federation hostility, Nero would conclude that Spock deliberately waited until after Romulus was destroyed to stop the supernova.
What does that have to do with Earth?

And weren't the Romulans depicted as a society that lives off of conflict? After all, the whole entire point of Balance of Terror was to spark another war between the Federation and the Romulans.

Commander: No need to tell you what happens when we reach home with proof of the Earthmen's weakness. And we will have proof. The Earth commander will follow. He must. When he attacks, we will destroy him. Our gift to the homeland, another war.
So Nero's idea of Romulus being free of the Federation is actually counter productive.
Nero isn't in the Romulan power structure. His ideas would be different than the Praetor, the Senate or a military commander. His ideas about the UFP would be shaped by Romulan propaganda.
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