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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 8 2013, 01:07 AM   #31
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
So why can he get away with hijacking a starship without a real court martial?
Because he's a bad mother f*cker and has family in high places (Sarek, T'Pau).
He's also a complicated man, but no one understands him but his woman.
Uhura or Chapel?
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Old March 8 2013, 02:08 AM   #32
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Chapel's clueless.
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Old March 8 2013, 02:18 AM   #33
A beaker full of death
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Damn. Now I have that in my head.
Spock!
John Spock.
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Old March 8 2013, 10:15 AM   #34
Elvira
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Frankly, in TOS "First Officer" just means the second-in-command, and the position may not come with any specific duties the way an executive officer position would.
First Officer and Executive Officer are the same position.

It's just two different ways of referring to the same person.

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Old March 8 2013, 03:09 PM   #35
Pavonis
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Is it, though? Especially in the TOS era, the First Officer position seems to be exclusively the second-in-command. There are no other duties ascribed to it. We saw Riker take care of typical XO duties, but never Spock. Was he even called the executive officer, ever? He was always just the Science Officer who happened to also rank just behind Kirk. Frankly, it seems like Kirk was his own XO.
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Old March 8 2013, 04:23 PM   #36
Timo
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Quickly googling for the term at the Chakoteya transcript site gives five uses of "executive" in TNG, three of them from the first season and referring to Riker and the other two from later but "unreal" cases ("executive officer in charge of radishes" plus "XO MacDuff")...

DS9 has three hits, one of which also contains use of the abbreviation "XO".

No hits anywhere in VOY, ENT or TOS/TAS!

In canon, then, it would appear that Sisko was Leyton's XO and Riker was Picard's XO, but no other First Officer is known to have carried that additional title, and no officer other than somebody's second-in-command is known to have been XO to anybody. Quite possibly being XO is an administrative job that may be held by various people aboard a Starfleet ship, and only select First Officers opt to take this as their "second proficiency". Spock instead chooses to be Chief Science Officer on the side, and Kirk's XO may be some Lieutenant or Ensign serving under Ben Finney...

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Old March 8 2013, 05:32 PM   #37
Pavonis
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Thanks, Timo. That's what I thought. The label "executive officer" just wasn't used much in Trek. "First Officer" and "Second Officer" were just used in reference to the chain of command, not to particular duties. So Spock was First Officer, but his duties were those of a Science Officer. His performance as both First Officer and Science Officer should not be any more remarkable than Scott's performance as both Chief Engineering Officer and Second Officer.

So I have to think that Spock isn't retained because he's so remarkable at pulling double duty - all Starfleet officers pull double duty, it seems, or rather none of them do. They all have duties that they perform, and a position in the chain of command.

Political connections are looking to be the best explanation for Spock's continuing service after hijacking Enterprise.
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Old March 8 2013, 06:39 PM   #38
A beaker full of death
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Timo wrote: View Post
Quite possibly being XO is an administrative job that may be held by various people aboard a Starfleet ship, and only select First Officers opt to take this as their "second proficiency". Spock instead chooses to be Chief Science Officer on the side, and Kirk's XO may be some Lieutenant or Ensign serving under Ben Finney...
Sorry, that's the most convoluted thing I've read in a long time, and completely at odds with everything we've seen both in Star Trek and throughout its various inspirations.
I suppose "Number One" is yet some third person.
And someone needs to mention (so I will) that Spock is not the first XO we've seen to have another job. Pike's XO manned the helm.
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Old March 8 2013, 07:09 PM   #39
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Quite possibly being XO is an administrative job that may be held by various people aboard a Starfleet ship, and only select First Officers opt to take this as their "second proficiency". Spock instead chooses to be Chief Science Officer on the side, and Kirk's XO may be some Lieutenant or Ensign serving under Ben Finney...
Sorry, that's the most convoluted thing I've read in a long time, and completely at odds with everything we've seen both in Star Trek and throughout its various inspirations.
I suppose "Number One" is yet some third person.
And someone needs to mention (so I will) that Spock is not the first XO we've seen to have another job. Pike's XO manned the helm.
Read posts #22 and #23.
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Old March 8 2013, 07:09 PM   #40
Pavonis
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
And someone needs to mention (so I will) that Spock is not the first XO we've seen to have another job. Pike's XO manned the helm.
Already been mentioned, beaker. Didn't you read the other posts?

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Yeah, I double checked, and Tom Nellis was first officer and the navigator for Antares. Number One was at the helm and definitely first officer, too.
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Old March 8 2013, 08:16 PM   #41
Elvira
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
And someone needs to mention (so I will) that Spock is not the first XO we've seen to have another job. Pike's XO manned the helm.
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Number One was at the helm and definitely first officer, too.
The argument could be made that Tyler was the ship's helmsman, based upon what he was doing and regardless of where his console was located, and Number One's console was that of "operations."

What Number One had in front of her was basically a version of Data's console.

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Old March 8 2013, 08:32 PM   #42
Timo
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

One could mention Spock's claim that he was the second officer of the ship in "The Enemy Within", or Picard's introduction in "The Battle" of Data as his second in command despite Riker being his First Officer.

Also, I trust people are refraining from mentioning Peter David's famous splitting of the 1st Officer and XO jobs between two characters in his New Frontier graphic-free graphic novels for the sake of decency rather than incompleteness...

Whatever else be said, "Executive Officer" isn't a popular title in Starfleet. Either the superiors and inferiors of Executive Officers hate the term and use any available alternative whenever they can, or then this type of officer isn't part of the usual complement of a starship.

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Old March 9 2013, 01:37 AM   #43
A beaker full of death
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Read posts #22 and #23.
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Already been mentioned, beaker. Didn't you read the other posts?
Sorry. I skim. I'm a skimmer.
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Old March 9 2013, 03:24 AM   #44
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Read posts #22 and #23.
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Already been mentioned, beaker. Didn't you read the other posts?
Sorry. I skim. I'm a skimmer.
Skimmers are from Star Wars, get out!!!!!
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Old March 9 2013, 12:46 PM   #45
Timo
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Re: Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?

Skimmers, flitters, hoppers, what's the difference?

I mean, seriously, what is it? Trek literature uses 'em all, and one could all things like crawlers and rollers. Quite possibly, there's a range of vehicles in use in the Trek universe with distinct means of motion, and these terms are massively more descriptive than the rather incomprehensible "car" or "tank" or "copter" or "plane"... A skimmer would be one of those things seen flying on the Cambridge lawn in "AGT", obviously.

Or then they are just different names for the same thing. Like First Officer and Executive Officer. Although in both cases, that would be quite unsatisfactory.

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