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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 4 2013, 08:00 AM   #1
t_smitts
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How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

It seems quite probable Janeway knew of the events of "The Jem'Hadar", since one would expect word of a Galaxy class ship being destroyed by some new power in the Gamma Quadrant to travel quickly through Starfleet.

The stardate of "Caretaker" takes place after "The Search", so the Defiant was apparently already assigned to DS9 at the time Voyager docked, so one would expect them to know why this bad-ass warship had been assigned there. (Whether the Founders were common knowledge at this point is debatable).

(It should also be noted, however, that stardates across series don't always mesh. For example, "By Inferno's Light" has a lower stardate than "First Contact", even though the preceding "In Purgatory's Shadow" clearly referenced the "recent Borg attack" from that movie).

Apparently as late as the fourth season, neither Chakotay, nor the Doctor were familiar with the Dominion, though given their backgrounds, they may not have had reason to be informed.

I remember reading somewhere (possibly one of the official magazines) that the threat of the Dominion is one reason why Voyager didn't plot a course for the Gamma side of the Bajoran wormhole instead of the slightly-further Alpha Quadrant, though realistically, given the number of hostile aliens they had to fight off or outrun, they probably would've been no worse off.
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Old March 4 2013, 01:01 PM   #2
Guy Gardener
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

The Dominon was no larger a threat than the other 12 neighbouring empires that destroyed a Starship that same week.

If the crew of Deep Space Nine didn't care, did it really seem like they were worried about a dominion invasion during episodes like Equilibrium, Meridian, or fascination, so I don't see why this lot straight from Humania would?
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Old March 4 2013, 01:36 PM   #3
indolover
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Janeway had to know. Which Starfleet Captain wouldn't have known? Most likely all Captains and above were briefed when the Odyssey was destroyed.
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Old March 4 2013, 02:16 PM   #4
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Briefing?

Hell no.

Every Captain, all the tens of thousands of them, was sent a memo they probably didn't read.

Tens of thousands of Federation Star Ship Captains receiving and sending hundreds of memos every day.

It's question of scale.

In the Best of Both Worlds, the loss of 37 ships was catastrophic.

The Bulk of the fleet.

The centre cannot hold.

Then along comes DS9 and their Dominion War.

Dozens of standing committed Fleets accounting for hundreds, maybe thousands of capital ships each.

One ship lost compared to that mess of activity?

Storm in a teacup.

Janeway didn't even Know that Data and Geordi had been tot he Delta Quadrant before her.

She didn't even know that Equinox had been captured by Caretaker 6 months before she had been captured by Caretaker, hell, she barely knew Ransom.
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Old March 4 2013, 06:10 PM   #5
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

in the episode Parturition in the Holodeck simulation at the beginning of episode you can see Jem'Hadar ships
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Old March 4 2013, 06:26 PM   #6
C.E. Evans
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

The Voyager vanished several months after the first official contact with the Dominion, enough for Janeway and her crew to know that they were a potential threat to the Federation, particularly after their destruction of the Starship Odyssey. By the time the Voyager left DS9, information regarding the Jem'Hadar, the Founders, and the Vorta was also known to Starfleet.
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Old March 4 2013, 06:51 PM   #7
Christopher
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

t_smitts wrote: View Post
The stardate of "Caretaker" takes place after "The Search", so the Defiant was apparently already assigned to DS9 at the time Voyager docked, so one would expect them to know why this bad-ass warship had been assigned there. (Whether the Founders were common knowledge at this point is debatable).
The stardate of "Caretaker" is about 100 units above that of "The Search," suggesting it takes place about 1.2 months later. Although you're right, stardates are unreliable as date markers.


I remember reading somewhere (possibly one of the official magazines) that the threat of the Dominion is one reason why Voyager didn't plot a course for the Gamma side of the Bajoran wormhole instead of the slightly-further Alpha Quadrant, though realistically, given the number of hostile aliens they had to fight off or outrun, they probably would've been no worse off.
I'm not sure the slightly smaller distance would be worth it. Let's see, according to this graphic seen in Astrometrics in the 7th season, the Idran terminus of the Bajoran wormhole is almost as far from Voyager's arrival point as the Federation is. Per that map, the Idran system is about 59,000 light-years from Ocampa, or 85% the distance to the Federation. Going by the similar but noncanonical map in Star Charts, it's more like 63,000 ly, 90% of the distance. (That's assuming a distance of 70,000 ly. The maps make it look more like 74,000, in which case the percentage would be 79-85%.)

Well, I guess that would constitute saving maybe 8-10 years, so that might've been worth considering. But there could be other advantages to heading toward known space. For one thing, more of it would be known; even territory the UFP hadn't visited could be territory that it had scanned remotely, or might be known to neighboring powers the UFP had made contact with. So toward the tail end of their journey, maybe they could've expected to find themselves in friendly territory or at least found a way to contact home. There's also the psychological benefit of feeling you're heading homeward rather than going sideways toward yet another unknown quadrant.
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Old March 4 2013, 07:13 PM   #8
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

The biggest problem for heading to the gamma quadrant is that you're relying on a phenomena you don't fully understand still being there.
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Old March 4 2013, 07:32 PM   #9
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Of course, the whole "set a course for home" thing was basically self-deluding. The 75-year estimate to get home was a best-speed sort of thing, and given how many times they stopped somewhere or got sidetracked, it realistically would've taken centuries if they hadn't found all those shortcuts. What they should've done was found some advanced, benevolent civilization they could ally with and settle in, then use their technological resources to develop a means of establishing regular communication with the Federation.

Also, I have a hard time forgiving Janeway for never bothering to look for any of the other refugees abducted by the Caretaker. They should've tracked them all down and banded together, traveling in a caravan for mutual support and protection. Maybe they could've found the Equinox earlier and spared them from five years of hell.
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Old March 4 2013, 07:59 PM   #10
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Of course, the whole "set a course for home" thing was basically self-deluding. The 75-year estimate to get home was a best-speed sort of thing, and given how many times they stopped somewhere or got sidetracked, it realistically would've taken centuries if they hadn't found all those shortcuts. What they should've done was found some advanced, benevolent civilization they could ally with and settle in, then use their technological resources to develop a means of establishing regular communication with the Federation.

Also, I have a hard time forgiving Janeway for never bothering to look for any of the other refugees abducted by the Caretaker. They should've tracked them all down and banded together, traveling in a caravan for mutual support and protection. Maybe they could've found the Equinox earlier and spared them from five years of hell.
They weren't totally clear on what happened to those other individuals. "The Voyager Conspiracy" suggested the Caretaker may have sent those ships back where they came from (though we know that wasn't the case with the Dreadnaught missle or the Equinox. Maybe both made a run for it, before he could sent them back).

Me, I still would've taken my chances with the Barzan wormhole, even if both sides were unstable.

Or better yet, I would've given Neelix and Kes whatever they needed so that they could destroy the Caretaker's array after I used it to get home.
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Old March 4 2013, 08:48 PM   #11
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

t_smitts wrote: View Post
Or better yet, I would've given Neelix and Kes whatever they needed so that they could destroy the Caretaker's array after I used it to get home.
Wouldn't have worked. The Caretaker died before he could send them home, and the Kazon were attacking the Array. Voyager didn't have enough firepower to prevent the Kazon from capturing the Array, and if that had happened, it's likely they would've shielded it against attack. So the crew wouldn't have had the opportunity to either use it to go home or destroy it once that happened. They had to destroy it in that brief window before the Kazon captured it.
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Old March 4 2013, 09:16 PM   #12
t_smitts
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Well, you may be right.

Back to the original subject...

Regarding Voyager post-"Message in a Bottle", it's interesting that, while we do get a reaction from Chakotay and B'Elanna about the Maquis being wiped out, we get no reaction from the Starfleet people about the news that the Federation is now at war, one in which a good many people and ships have been lost and was going rather badly for Starfleet for a while.

Considering how hard it was to transfer letters, I doubt they got much detail in the way of casualty lists, but it would've been interesting to have Harry or Paris or somebody learn that their cousin serving as assistant chief engineer on the Yorktown had been killed in a skirmish with the Dominoin at Gamma Canis VII.
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Old March 4 2013, 10:16 PM   #13
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

^Sure, it would've been a nice bit of continuity, but from a practical standpoint, the two shows had to stand on their own, since there was no guarantee that viewers of one show would be familiar with the other -- also since one was on UPN and the other was syndicated. "The Maquis were wiped out last year" isn't as distracting a bit of out-of-series continuity as "The Federation we're trying to reach is at war and may not exist when we get back."
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Old March 5 2013, 01:44 PM   #14
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

^Except that they could have swung it round and said "This means we need to get home even more, to help with the war effort". At least, until the war actually ended.
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Old March 5 2013, 02:38 PM   #15
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Re: How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

If Janeway in the beginning believed that the Federation was going to fall to the Dominion and that by the time they reached formerly Federation Space, that Earth and all the worlds they knew as home soil would then now be loyal, acclimatized and happy with their new aliens overlords, then logically a 30 year trip to Dominion Space from Caretakers array, where most probably the Federation Government Apparatus would have been moved to to reflect the change in administration by the time they got there, would be a wiser use of their finite resources, so that she too could report for duty as an Officer in the Irregular Dominion Foreign Legion like any admiral that still represented the phantom of the command structure that used to be Starfleet would order her to make it so.

Kathryn Janeway plotted a course home through Borg, Klingon and Romulan Space.

##### did not know what she was doing.
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