What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

[Carcazoid]

Bry_Sinclair wrote:

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Yup, ticking off a lot of fans was just a great way to go

And thousands were so pissed that they went back to the theater time after time just to be absolutely sure.

And then they weren't pissed enough, so they bought the BluRay and DVD and all the tie-in merch.

Yup. Pissing off the fans was a great idea.

[The Overlord]

mos6507 wrote:

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Plus audiences had proven to enjoy nonsense like transformers with wrecking-ball testicles, so taste had changed.

I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.

[Greg Cox]

sonak wrote:

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hey! I like "Lost in Space." I even liked the movie.

And I've seen Barbarella more times than I want to admit!

[Nerys Myk]

The Overlord wrote:

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I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.

I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.

[Greg Cox]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.

Exactly. It's possible to attach too much importance to somebody's previous credits. Different jobs, different approaches.

I've written for STAR TREK, CSI, XENA, and TALES OF THE CRYPT. I like to think I didn't use the same style for each

[Dream]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.

I was at the store today and saw some poor bastard buying the three Bay Transformers on dvd. Wanted to shake him violently and yell the names of some good movies for him to watch instead.

[RAMA]

Bry_Sinclair wrote:

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I personally don't have any huge issues with INS (though I could have done with less of the cutsie Data-Artem stuff) it's no TFF!

NEM was just bad. Gaping plot holes and story elements that made little sense (Worf and Wesley back in uniforms, Shinzon's hatred of a planet he's never set foot on, pointless nature-vs-nurture debates between Picard and Shinzon, the fact that there are uncharted planets along the Neutral Zone [probably the best patrolled region of space there is], Troi seemingly unable to press buttons by herself), needless buggy ride on an world where aliens are hostile for no reason, the E-E growing multiple decks with a massive chasm that goes nowhere and does nothing.

But the biggest thing that ticks me off about that film is B-4 and the fact that Data's death is cheapened by having him there as a back-up at the end of the film. If they are going to kill off Data, then do it and do it right (don't do a Spock and leave a loophole in there in case more films get made).

The FACTS are that Nemesis graded rather well with audiences. My previous post mentions Insurrection probably decreased expectations for a STNG film. If more people had ventured out to see it, I think the lack of BO take in first run theaters wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

[RAMA]

Dream wrote:

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I was at the store today and saw some poor bastard buying the three Bay Transformers on dvd. Wanted to shake him violently and yell the names of some good movies for him to watch instead.

Surprisingly I enjoyed Transformers1. I dont apologize for it. It is what it was meant to be. Star Trek is a better movie on every level though...do you see Transformers getting a Writer's Guild Award nom?? ST09 did...

[CorporalClegg]

RAMA wrote:

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The FACTS are that Nemesis graded rather well with audiences.

What "facts" are these?

If more people had ventured out to see it, I think the lack of BO take in first run theaters wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

That doesn't make any sense. If more people had gone to see it, the BO take would have been higher.

[Tosk]

Greg Cox wrote:

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Exactly. It's possible to attach too much importance to somebody's previous credits. Different jobs, different approaches.

I actually find them to be quite similar. TF1 and ST11 both share a "something happens because the script says so, regardless of logic" mentality that gets swept under the rug to a certain extent in the name of fun. That said, ST11 is easily the better film. Abrams vs Bay? No contest.

No apologies for TF2 though. What a mess. (TF3 was just as bad, but can't blame that one on K&O. )

[blueziggy]

honestly what sunk the TNG movie franchise was the TNG tv franchise in its whole (meaning DS9 and VOY). DS9 gave us some great encompassing arcs and stories. it always had a feel of something huge going on in the galaxy. generations, first contact, and insurrection all are pretty much self contained. first contact is the closest it comes to being a big story, but in the end in boils down to one/two men and their pasts/futures.

never release ds9 and voy, turn ds9 war stories into a trilogy for tng and we'd probably have spinoffs of those movies still on tv today.

[RAMA]

CorporalClegg wrote:

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What "facts" are these?

That doesn't make any sense. If more people had gone to see it, the BO take would have been higher.

Box Offcie Guru:

Paramount reported that the Nemesis audience was 64% male and predominantly over 25. Fans were pleased as those polled by CinemaScore.com gave it an encouraging A-. However, long-term prospects seem cloudy. Most of the sci-fi/fantasy crowd is already purchasing advance tickets for The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers which opens on Wednesday. Plus Trek movies traditionally attract a large share of their audience on opening weekend meaning hefty declines in future weeks seem like.

In other words, people who went to actually SEE it liked it.

The comment was based off of my last post...IE: IF ST Nem had better expectations due to Insurrection's performance.

[CorporalCaptain]

Fans were pleased as those polled by CinemaScore.com gave it an encouraging A-.

What does this even mean? What's the science behind this statement?

Is it referring to a scientific poll of the general audience who saw the film, and then is that A- an amalgamation of the grades assigned by those polled who self-identified as Star Trek fans? If that's what it was, then what was the grade assigned by everybody else?

Or what?

Link, please?

[JarodRussell]

Greg Cox wrote:

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I've written for STAR TREK, CSI, XENA, and TALES OF THE CRYPT. I like to think I didn't use the same style for each

Just keep telling that to yourself.

[mos6507]

The Overlord wrote:

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I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.

Transformers as coming of age drama is not that far off from Kirk being a rebel without a cause and driving his car off of a cliff. Some of the humor in Transformers is not that different from the slapstick with Scotty in the brewery-engine-room. Adolescent intrigue between Shia and Megan Fox is not that different from Kirk getting in bar brawls or escapades in the academy or Spock and Uhura in the turbolift. And of course, the visual style with sh*t wizzing past the camera is pretty much the same. Not to mention we're dealing with trying to revive two preexisting franchises. I mean, there was a reason those guys were chosen to write Trek in the first place. It was because they write popcorn fluff movies that make tons of money for films that get, at best, grudgingly lukewarm reviews.

The reason TF1 was actually watchable was that it was basically a testosterone-laden E.T. with a big fight tacked on at the end. And of course, whenever Peter Cullen speaks as Optimus, it always seems epic, but that's about him, not his script. You could say the same thing about Nimoy's cameo.