RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,678
Posts: 5,430,303
Members: 24,827
Currently online: 518
Newest member: Sb118_James


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 4 2013, 02:47 AM   #76
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?
Trek 2009 sunk it.
Yup, ticking off a lot of fans was just a great way to go
And thousands were so pissed that they went back to the theater time after time just to be absolutely sure.

And then they weren't pissed enough, so they bought the BluRay and DVD and all the tie-in merch.

Yup. Pissing off the fans was a great idea.
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 02:47 AM   #77
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

mos6507 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the 2009 film did well because for the first time in a long time, it made Star Trek fun.
Plus audiences had proven to enjoy nonsense like transformers with wrecking-ball testicles, so taste had changed.
I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:54 AM   #78
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

sonak wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post

Plus audiences had proven to enjoy nonsense like transformers with wrecking-ball testicles, so taste had changed.
As opposed to the glory days of the sixties, when audiences enjoyed such sophisticated science fiction classics as LOST IN SPACE, BARBARELLA, and THE GREEN SLIME?

hey! I like "Lost in Space." I even liked the movie.

And I've seen Barbarella more times than I want to admit!
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 04:30 AM   #79
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

The Overlord wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the 2009 film did well because for the first time in a long time, it made Star Trek fun.
Plus audiences had proven to enjoy nonsense like transformers with wrecking-ball testicles, so taste had changed.
I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.
I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 05:02 AM   #80
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post

Plus audiences had proven to enjoy nonsense like transformers with wrecking-ball testicles, so taste had changed.
I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.
I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.
Exactly. It's possible to attach too much importance to somebody's previous credits. Different jobs, different approaches.

I've written for STAR TREK, CSI, XENA, and TALES OF THE CRYPT. I like to think I didn't use the same style for each
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 05:50 AM   #81
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.
I was at the store today and saw some poor bastard buying the three Bay Transformers on dvd. Wanted to shake him violently and yell the names of some good movies for him to watch instead.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:36 PM   #82
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I personally don't have any huge issues with INS (though I could have done with less of the cutsie Data-Artem stuff) it's no TFF!

NEM was just bad. Gaping plot holes and story elements that made little sense (Worf and Wesley back in uniforms, Shinzon's hatred of a planet he's never set foot on, pointless nature-vs-nurture debates between Picard and Shinzon, the fact that there are uncharted planets along the Neutral Zone [probably the best patrolled region of space there is], Troi seemingly unable to press buttons by herself), needless buggy ride on an world where aliens are hostile for no reason, the E-E growing multiple decks with a massive chasm that goes nowhere and does nothing.

But the biggest thing that ticks me off about that film is B-4 and the fact that Data's death is cheapened by having him there as a back-up at the end of the film. If they are going to kill off Data, then do it and do it right (don't do a Spock and leave a loophole in there in case more films get made).
The FACTS are that Nemesis graded rather well with audiences. My previous post mentions Insurrection probably decreased expectations for a STNG film. If more people had ventured out to see it, I think the lack of BO take in first run theaters wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:38 PM   #83
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Dream wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I barely managed to get through the first Transformer film. That was more than enough for me. That the guys writing it also wrote ST09 doesn't factor into it for me. Different movies.
I was at the store today and saw some poor bastard buying the three Bay Transformers on dvd. Wanted to shake him violently and yell the names of some good movies for him to watch instead.
Surprisingly I enjoyed Transformers1. I dont apologize for it. It is what it was meant to be. Star Trek is a better movie on every level though...do you see Transformers getting a Writer's Guild Award nom?? ST09 did...
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:46 PM   #84
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

RAMA wrote: View Post
The FACTS are that Nemesis graded rather well with audiences.
What "facts" are these?

If more people had ventured out to see it, I think the lack of BO take in first run theaters wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
That doesn't make any sense. If more people had gone to see it, the BO take would have been higher.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:49 PM   #85
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Exactly. It's possible to attach too much importance to somebody's previous credits. Different jobs, different approaches.
I actually find them to be quite similar. TF1 and ST11 both share a "something happens because the script says so, regardless of logic" mentality that gets swept under the rug to a certain extent in the name of fun. That said, ST11 is easily the better film. Abrams vs Bay? No contest.

No apologies for TF2 though. What a mess. (TF3 was just as bad, but can't blame that one on K&O. )
Tosk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 04:58 PM   #86
blueziggy
Lieutenant
 
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

honestly what sunk the TNG movie franchise was the TNG tv franchise in its whole (meaning DS9 and VOY). DS9 gave us some great encompassing arcs and stories. it always had a feel of something huge going on in the galaxy. generations, first contact, and insurrection all are pretty much self contained. first contact is the closest it comes to being a big story, but in the end in boils down to one/two men and their pasts/futures.

never release ds9 and voy, turn ds9 war stories into a trilogy for tng and we'd probably have spinoffs of those movies still on tv today.
blueziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5 2013, 12:38 AM   #87
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
The FACTS are that Nemesis graded rather well with audiences.
What "facts" are these?

If more people had ventured out to see it, I think the lack of BO take in first run theaters wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
That doesn't make any sense. If more people had gone to see it, the BO take would have been higher.

Box Offcie Guru:

Paramount reported that the Nemesis audience was 64% male and predominantly over 25. Fans were pleased as those polled by CinemaScore.com gave it an encouraging A-. However, long-term prospects seem cloudy. Most of the sci-fi/fantasy crowd is already purchasing advance tickets for The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers which opens on Wednesday. Plus Trek movies traditionally attract a large share of their audience on opening weekend meaning hefty declines in future weeks seem like.
In other words, people who went to actually SEE it liked it.

The comment was based off of my last post...IE: IF ST Nem had better expectations due to Insurrection's performance.
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5 2013, 01:09 AM   #88
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Fans were pleased as those polled by CinemaScore.com gave it an encouraging A-.
What does this even mean? What's the science behind this statement?

Is it referring to a scientific poll of the general audience who saw the film, and then is that A- an amalgamation of the grades assigned by those polled who self-identified as Star Trek fans? If that's what it was, then what was the grade assigned by everybody else?

Or what?

Link, please?
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5 2013, 01:37 AM   #89
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I've written for STAR TREK, CSI, XENA, and TALES OF THE CRYPT. I like to think I didn't use the same style for each
Just keep telling that to yourself.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5 2013, 01:39 AM   #90
mos6507
Captain
 
mos6507's Avatar
 
Re: What sunk the TNG movie franchise: Insurrection or Nemesis?

The Overlord wrote: View Post
I would say the latest Star Trek movie is leagues ahead of any Transformers movie. The latest Star trek movie was fun, the Transformers movies are about as fun as a root canal.
Transformers as coming of age drama is not that far off from Kirk being a rebel without a cause and driving his car off of a cliff. Some of the humor in Transformers is not that different from the slapstick with Scotty in the brewery-engine-room. Adolescent intrigue between Shia and Megan Fox is not that different from Kirk getting in bar brawls or escapades in the academy or Spock and Uhura in the turbolift. And of course, the visual style with sh*t wizzing past the camera is pretty much the same. Not to mention we're dealing with trying to revive two preexisting franchises. I mean, there was a reason those guys were chosen to write Trek in the first place. It was because they write popcorn fluff movies that make tons of money for films that get, at best, grudgingly lukewarm reviews.

The reason TF1 was actually watchable was that it was basically a testosterone-laden E.T. with a big fight tacked on at the end. And of course, whenever Peter Cullen speaks as Optimus, it always seems epic, but that's about him, not his script. You could say the same thing about Nimoy's cameo.
__________________
Fem Trekz on Facebook
mos6507 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
insurrection, nemesis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.