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Old March 3 2013, 08:49 PM   #16
Alidar Jarok
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"We" are people in charge of setting policy for schools. Why would you prefer they ignore a problem rather than take precautions when it turns out to not be a problem?
I think we'd like them to be able to identify problems a little more accurately.
While I agree, that wasn't my point. When it comes to Type I errors and Type II errors, which side is it better to err on in this situation? It's why, while this woman is stupid, I'd rather someone stupid like this than a mother who saw their teenage child building an arsenal in the basement and did nothing.

the G-man wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"We" are people in charge of setting policy for schools. Why would you prefer they ignore a problem rather than take precautions when it turns out to not be a problem? It seems that the costs of your error is higher than the costs of my error.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
It was pointed out recently that the words "essential" and "temporary" are often left out, which quite changes the meaning (although I think it's really one of degree, whether or not Mr. Franklin agrees with me). You left them in, which I appreciate, so I'll just ask this question: Is locking the classroom doors until a problem is resolved (what happened here) giving up an "essential liberty" in exchange for a little temporary safety?
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Old March 3 2013, 08:59 PM   #17
RoJoHen
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

I think the bigger issue here is why the student had his cellphone out in the first place.
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Old March 3 2013, 09:20 PM   #18
Mr. Adventure
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Fox News (yeah I know) had a story of a second grader getting in trouble for chewing his pop tart into a gun shape.
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Old March 3 2013, 10:41 PM   #19
Owain Taggart
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

lennier1 wrote: View Post
Good thing the kid isn't into heavy metal:

One guy I used to know would play that publicly shortly after 9/11, not realizing why it was insensitive or innapropriate.
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Old March 3 2013, 10:47 PM   #20
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Anybody know if the police listened to the voicemail greeting, too, before running off to arrest the poor kid, or did they just take the receptionist at her* word?

* - I'm assuming the receptionist is female.
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Old March 4 2013, 12:23 AM   #21
Alidar Jarok
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Good thing the kid isn't into heavy metal:

One guy I used to know would play that publicly shortly after 9/11, not realizing why it was insensitive or innapropriate.
Also, leaving all else aside, Drowning Pool sucks.
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Old March 4 2013, 12:30 AM   #22
Kestrel
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

I was in a lockdown just the other day while substituting (albeit for a drug search, not "violence.") The lost instructional time - however long the lockdown took plus the rest of whatever class happens to be right after it - over something so meaningless must be hair-pulling for the teachers.
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Old March 4 2013, 12:33 AM   #23
Mr. Adventure
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Good thing the kid isn't into heavy metal:

One guy I used to know would play that publicly shortly after 9/11, not realizing why it was insensitive or innapropriate.
I have to remind myself to be sensitive over things like that because I'm not as associative as other people. That song wouldn't make me think of 9/11 even the day after.
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Old March 4 2013, 01:53 AM   #24
Owain Taggart
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Good thing the kid isn't into heavy metal:

One guy I used to know would play that publicly shortly after 9/11, not realizing why it was insensitive or innapropriate.
I have to remind myself to be sensitive over things like that because I'm not as associative as other people. That song wouldn't make me think of 9/11 even the day after.

I guess it's a matter of context, because it's immediately what I thought of after hearing it relatively soon after. The guy in question was pretty much self-centered and only cared about what he wanted to play, not what others might have thought. To this day, because of that, I still associate the song with the event.
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Old March 4 2013, 02:08 AM   #25
lennier1
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Owain Taggart wrote: View Post


One guy I used to know would play that publicly shortly after 9/11, not realizing why it was insensitive or innapropriate.
I have to remind myself to be sensitive over things like that because I'm not as associative as other people. That song wouldn't make me think of 9/11 even the day after.

I guess it's a matter of context, because it's immediately what I thought of after hearing it relatively soon after. The guy in question was pretty much self-centered and only cared about what he wanted to play, not what others might have thought. To this day, because of that, I still associate the song with the event.
It is actually tied to that event, but not the way you think. Many troops in Afghanistan used it and similar songs as part for psychological warfare, to demotivate enemy troops and deprive them of sleep (their culture didn't have anything resembling heavy metal, so just think of how they must have perceived such songs, dialed up to 11).
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Old March 4 2013, 02:17 AM   #26
Owain Taggart
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Interesting. I had no idea that it was tied to that, but I guess it makes sense as the song is quite graphic.
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Old March 4 2013, 03:09 AM   #27
Mr. Adventure
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

I know I was demotivated when you couldn't escape it on the radio and TV.
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Old March 4 2013, 03:53 AM   #28
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"We" are people in charge of setting policy for schools. Why would you prefer they ignore a problem rather than take precautions when it turns out to not be a problem? It seems that the costs of your error is higher than the costs of my error.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Though I'd argue that any n - ten, one hundred, ten billion - is better to let escape.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

It was pointed out recently that the words "essential" and "temporary" are often left out, which quite changes the meaning (although I think it's really one of degree, whether or not Mr. Franklin agrees with me). You left them in, which I appreciate, so I'll just ask this question: Is locking the classroom doors until a problem is resolved (what happened here) giving up an "essential liberty" in exchange for a little temporary safety?
The student was arrested without cause. I'd definitely say that his essential liberty was sacrificed.

(Not to mention anybody who was detained because of the lockdown - be they visiting adults or students who were scheduled to leave the property for whatever reason.)
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Old March 4 2013, 04:15 AM   #29
Alidar Jarok
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

ATimson wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"We" are people in charge of setting policy for schools. Why would you prefer they ignore a problem rather than take precautions when it turns out to not be a problem? It seems that the costs of your error is higher than the costs of my error.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Yes, I too am a fan of Blackstone, although he was talking about convictions.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

It was pointed out recently that the words "essential" and "temporary" are often left out, which quite changes the meaning (although I think it's really one of degree, whether or not Mr. Franklin agrees with me). You left them in, which I appreciate, so I'll just ask this question: Is locking the classroom doors until a problem is resolved (what happened here) giving up an "essential liberty" in exchange for a little temporary safety?
The student was arrested without cause. I'd definitely say that his essential liberty was sacrificed.
For what it's worth, I meant it was better for the school receptionist to overreact than underreact. I wasn't commenting on the arrest (I actually missed that), I was just thinking of the lockdown. I had no problem with her calling the police, trusting them to better exercise good judgment. I agree there's no probable cause for an arrest based on these facts.
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Old March 4 2013, 04:24 AM   #30
gturner
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Re: School goes into lockdown over "Fresh Prince" theme

Just today a student was suspended for tackling and disarming another student on the school bus who'd pulled out a gun and was about to shoot one of the other passengers. The school said he was "involved" in an incident with a weapon, so they suspended him. With that logic all the police officers should be in jail for being "involved" in an arrest.

As for the student with the ringtone, did the police verify that he wasn't infringing on the copyright to the song? Since he was allegedly the one singing it, he's probably not paid into any royalty stream and thus could possibly face huge fines and jail time. He's lucky the police didn't find any nail clippers or they could probably add on "armed copyright infringement" and slap another five years on his sentence.
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