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Old March 2 2013, 12:02 AM   #16
JiNX-01
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Why was Wesley allowed on the bridge? And even worse, why was he allowed to pilot the ship?
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Old March 2 2013, 12:05 AM   #17
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

It's amazing how few assimilated civilizations Voyager ran into considering Seven knew so much about everyone everywhere. It's almost like the Borg visit every one, judge them and earmark when they might be ready for assimilation, be it weeks, years or centuries off from the current date.

Or...

It's not just the Federation who repell the Borg so easily.
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Old March 2 2013, 12:08 AM   #18
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
Why was Wesley allowed on the bridge? And even worse, why was he allowed to pilot the ship?
Traveller told Picard that Wes was going to turn into a god one day, and it was Picards job to make sure that Wes was a nice God who did nice things like himself, and not an angry God who spread plagues and raped cattle like Q.

Ticking fricking timebomb.
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Old March 2 2013, 12:22 AM   #19
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
Why was Wesley allowed on the bridge? And even worse, why was he allowed to pilot the ship?
Picard was trolling by putting the kid 'at the wheel of the car' so to speak, a 'car' packed with 1000 people, the flagship of the fleet. It was his sense of humor.

The Enterprise-D had the worst helmsmen. Imagine if the Enterprise-D could land like Voyager could. How scuffed and banged up would it be? Paris was actually probably the best helmsman in Star Trek (now, if Harry Kim was at the helm, Voyager would have steered into one disaster after another). Sisko could have let Jake play around because the station was in park.
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Old March 2 2013, 12:38 AM   #20
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's amazing how few assimilated civilizations Voyager ran into considering Seven knew so much about everyone everywhere. It's almost like the Borg visit every one, judge them and earmark when they might be ready for assimilation, be it weeks, years or centuries off from the current date.

Or...

It's not just the Federation who repell the Borg so easily.
The Borg are like some people- they just aren't that into exploration. Look at what we saw on Voyager. Heavy assimilation off of their transwarp highways. Go a little ways beyond it and there are people who had no trouble with the Borg. How many people going down an interstate say "You know what, I'm going to get off here at Nowheresville and head down thataway just to see what's down there"? The Borg are lazy. Advanced, yet lazy. They just use their collective muscle to get new technology instead of thinking it up, though presumably there's somebody in the Borg with some independent thought/creativity that makes it compatible with all their existing technology and makes sure its fashion doesn't clash with the Borg aesthetic (we never saw these interior designer drones that still had some independence of thought).

Want to know something really cool that just struck me a few days ago? Borg space probably isn't all Borg. There are probably some M-class planets that didn't have good mineral profiles for mass strip mining so they are probably left alone and some planets with pre-warp civilizations, or lousy warp civilizations. Borg space is huge, there's gotta be some race like the sponge-headed kilt-wearing louts with warp drive somewhere in there. Arturis' home system was an island in Borg space, but that was because they were so advanced and they were besieged by the Borg.
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Old March 2 2013, 01:12 AM   #21
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

I see them as farmers.

They wait out other civilizations for new innovations.

There's no point in assimilating redundant technology.

That's the opposite of lazy.

The restraint it takes not to take raw resources and man power on the off chance that the planets they're watching might create something interesting in three hundred years is impressive.

But then there's forced evolution.

By wittingly fumbling their invasion of the Federation, they have bottle necked all the inventiveness of a 150 worlds into creation of poorly deployed haphazard antiborg technology which the Borg can laugh at while they assimilate and recognize that they're lucky a competent opposition was not putting them to task with the same tools.

Case in point...

The Borg have assimilated all of Adrmial Janeways Future tech and it will never be a threat to them again.

The next 16 years of Federation genius is moot.
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Old March 3 2013, 03:47 AM   #22
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

The ship was a single ship alone in hostile territory, and Neelix was the only member of the ship with a remotely diplomatic skillset. He should be on the bridge when they first meet a new race, and he should be involved in top level discussions about how to deal with them.

I think the Borg like to play the long game. They're not playing to win the game as fast as possible, they're just playing to win the game. So they play salami. Attack one planet, once they've completely dominated it, move on to the next.

But that doesn't explain why they don't send more than one cube at a time to Earth.
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Old March 3 2013, 04:37 AM   #23
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
But that doesn't explain why they don't send more than one cube at a time to Earth.
I blame Voyager writers and bad writing for introducing the idea that the Borg has "thousands" of cubes. Before that show, I just always assumed the Borg might have had 3-4 cubes in the entire galaxy and couldn't send anyone at Earth after BOBW which had been a crippling blow.
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Old March 3 2013, 04:45 AM   #24
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Conventional Earth forces should fall if confronted by a single Cube.

It's just that the stoopid humans keep mounting unconventional defences.

Even if they send ten Cubes, each new unconventional defence the Federation pulls out of it's ass at the 11th hour is still going to work even against 20 cubes because the Borg will not have a countercounter.

Each new counter works once, and is thereafter considered conventional.

Ergo the Federation will fall to one Cube in the next bout.

And if the Federation will still keep inventing new counters to Borg superiority, isn't it best that they only lose one cube while figuring out a countercounter to any such new counter than losing ten Cubes if total loss is a certainty as long as the ongoing unpredictability of Federation tactics is a certainty?
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Old March 3 2013, 04:48 AM   #25
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

balticballet wrote: View Post
Watching Voyager tonight and saw Neelix on the Bridge and wondered why is he there also why is he included in briefing meetings when his job is Cook, Morale Officer and Ambassador?
Because he was the only one aboard who knew the part of the galaxy they were going through during their first two years. It would make sense to have him at briefings when they need more information about places they were approaching, all that.
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Old March 3 2013, 05:45 AM   #26
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Conventional Earth forces should fall if confronted by a single Cube.

It's just that the stoopid humans keep mounting unconventional defences.

Even if they send ten Cubes, each new unconventional defence the Federation pulls out of it's ass at the 11th hour is still going to work even against 20 cubes because the Borg will not have a countercounter.

Each new counter works once, and is thereafter considered conventional.

Ergo the Federation will fall to one Cube in the next bout.

And if the Federation will still keep inventing new counters to Borg superiority, isn't it best that they only lose one cube while figuring out a countercounter to any such new counter than losing ten Cubes if total loss is a certainty as long as the ongoing unpredictability of Federation tactics is a certainty?
If only the Borg would yell out "THEY'VE ADAPTED!" every time this happens.
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Old March 3 2013, 06:12 PM   #27
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
Why was Wesley allowed on the bridge?
I think...

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Because with very little training he stopped peeing on the carpet
... just about covers it.
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Old March 3 2013, 08:49 PM   #28
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Stopping him would require touching.
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Old March 3 2013, 10:44 PM   #29
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Dream wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
But that doesn't explain why they don't send more than one cube at a time to Earth.
I blame Voyager writers and bad writing for introducing the idea that the Borg has "thousands" of cubes. Before that show, I just always assumed the Borg might have had 3-4 cubes in the entire galaxy and couldn't send anyone at Earth after BOBW which had been a crippling blow.
Borg space is huge. They didn't have transwarp hubs in TNG (which is like hyper-accelerated transwarp) so it took a while to get to Earth. Also consider while they may have thousands of cubes, they need most of those to maintain their space, probably assimilating drones and mining worlds for building materials. Also consider ther simply may have been many closer/better targets to deal with (like Arturis' race) or dealing with the rabble trying to topple them. Maybe part of the Borg empire is bogged down in a war with another race, one not so strong as to decimate them like Species 8472 did, but strong enough to resist and hold the line, but with technology they really want. When they really want something, they send more than 1 cube. The BOBW cube might've been a test run to assess how easy it would be to assimilate the Federation. One would think there would've been a parallel BOBW for the Klingons (test run on the Klingons), yet we never heard of it.

I think so much of the problem comes with the mistaken impression that these were like machine gods, nigh invincible, instead of being an advanced yet in some ways simple race that did have a huge area of space and which were likened to a force of nature at times. They have their weaknesses which other races try to exploit (technological with Species 6xxx whatever and biological with the Brunali). Voyager had a former drone and the desire to survive against the Borg. They also had some Borg tech onboard (Astrometrics) and a chance to study Borg tech close up on many times (Unity, Scorpion leftovers, scanning One the Drone, etc). They had the will to exploit every advantage against the Borg, even trying to stoke a Borg civil war via Unimatrix Zero (that would've made for a better "Endgame" than Admiral Janeway, who drank so much "coffee. black" it altered her personality to be just like it).
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Old March 3 2013, 10:53 PM   #30
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Re: Why is Neelix allowed on the bridge?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Stopping him would require touching.
Wesley, or Neelix?

(Or Wesley and Neelix?)
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