another quibble

[scotpens]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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One of the most egregious mispronunciation errors in Trek is in TAS: The Pirates of Orion, in which Orion is pronounced OR-ee-on instead of or-RYE-on.

In "The Corbomite Maneuver," Balok says his own name as "Bay-lock," but Dr. McCoy pronounces it to rhyme with "phallic." Almost as if he'd never heard the name spoken before, but only seen it in print . . . like in a shooting script or something.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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Perhaps their real names ARE John and Mary, but they are so old that they have forgotten how to spell them? Use of language does tend to drift over time, perhaps this extends to people's names as well.

Not to mention the United States Constitution!

[Gul Re'jal]

Deckerd wrote:

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If you want random nonsense, sorry to jump shows here, but Stargate SG1 had about six different pronunciations of Goa'uld.

I thought about the same example when I read OP. And how in Babylon 5 one of guest characters kept calling Ivanova "Ai-vanova". I expected Ivanova to correct her, thinking it was in the script, but she didn't, which means the actress just was pronouncing it wrong and no one even corrected her. Grated on me the whole episode.

In ST, I'm more annoyed by Anglo-Saxon names for 99% of humans

[Nerys Myk]

Gul Re'jal wrote:

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I thought about the same example when I read OP. And how in Babylon 5 one of guest characters kept calling Ivanova "Ai-vanova". I expected Ivanova to correct her, thinking it was in the script, but she didn't, which means the actress just was pronouncing it wrong and no one even corrected her. Grated on me the whole episode.

In ST, I'm more annoyed by Anglo-Saxon names for 99% of humans

Depends on how you define Anglo-Saxon

Kirk-Scottish
McCoy-Scottish
Scott-Scottish
Sulu-Malayo-Polynesian?
Uhura-Swahili
Chekov-Russian

Picard-French
Riker-German
Troi-Gaelic
Crusher-English
LaForge-French
Yar-Unknown

Sisko-various including Nordic and Balkan countries.
O'Brien-Irish

Janeway-English
Paris-French
Torres-Spanish
Chakotay-Faux Indian
Kim-Korean
Hansen-Swedish

Archer-English
Tucker-English
Reed-English
Mayweather-English
Sato-Japanese

Enterprise wins the Anglo-Saxon derby!!!!

[feek61]

I recall in one of the early TOS episodes Lt. Farrell called Sulu "Mr. Solo" which in "Inside Star Trek" Herb Solow says it was a joke meant for him.

[yousirname]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Troi-Gaelic

Really? I mean, I'm not sure that you're wrong, but I'm Irish and 'Troi' doesn't sound 'Gaelic' to me at all. Although there's a poker player named Tom Dwan and it's only because of him that I know 'Dwan' is an Irish name, so... I dunno. But I'm really not sure you're right on that score.

But beyond that specific point, I think Gul Re'jal was probably referring more to guest star characters than main cast members. It's not something that bothers me in particular, but I think he has a point (as long as we assume he does indeed mean guest stars).

[Nerys Myk]

yousirname wrote:

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Really? I mean, I'm not sure that you're wrong, but I'm Irish and 'Troi' doesn't sound 'Gaelic' to me at all. Although there's a poker player named Tom Dwan and it's only because of him that I know 'Dwan' is an Irish name, so... I dunno. But I'm really not sure you're right on that score.

But beyond that specific point, I think Gul Re'jal was probably referring more to guest star characters than main cast members. It's not something that bothers me in particular, but I think he has a point (as long as we assume he does indeed mean guest stars).

I read it on the internet, so it has to be true.

You're right He might mean guest stars playing humans.

[T'Girl]

I'm not sure when they finalize Deanna Troi's last name, likely before the actress was hired for the role.

Given half of the actress's ancestry, I guess as a child I considered Troi to be a play on Troy (the city of legend).

Troi - Greek

[yousirname]

The source linked to actually identifies 'Troy' as a given name to be Gaelic, and as a surname to be Norman French.

[at Quark's]

I must say that it had occurred to me several times that I would have pronounced some alien names differently, but I've always assumed it was just due to my inadequate knowledge of the English language (English is just a foreign language to me).

I mean, to me as a non-native, English is swamped with inconsistencies I've never quite understood (e.g. take 'good' and 'blood' -- it's written almost the same yet the oo - sounds are nothing alike. I suppose it has to do with the development of the language over the past few centuries and the wish to not change spelling too much -- heck, I actually have less trouble reading English from, say 1630, than reading something from my mother tongue from that era, since the spelling has changed so much ). And blood/good is just a random example, there are so many of them -- several have even been given in this thread. Is there actually any internal logic to it for an average native speaker (i.e. no linguistic scholar), or is it just something you 'are used to because that's the way English is written', like I have become over the years?

Anyway. seen from that background, I've always dismissed the "mm, I think I would have pronounced that as 'ah-min', not 'ay-min' "- thoughts as rather trivial

(*) This reply is not meant to bash your language BTW. Neither is this reply meant to irritate anyone, it's just how things look from my perspective.

[scotpens]

at Quark's wrote:

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. . . I mean, to me as a non-native, English is swamped with inconsistencies I've never quite understood (e.g. take 'good' and 'blood' -- it's written almost the same yet the oo - sounds are nothing alike. I suppose it has to do with the development of the language over the past few centuries and the wish to not change spelling too much . . . Is there actually any internal logic to it for an average native speaker (i.e. no linguistic scholar) . . .

No, there isn't.

. . . or is it just something you are used to because that's the way English is written, like I have become over the years?

That's pretty much the case.

Before the introduction of the printing press, there were variant spellings for almost every word in the English language. People wrote words however they thought they sounded. Today's English spelling is so inconsistent because the language became fixed in print before standardized spellings could be agreed upon. Whatever spelling made it into print first became the accepted one.

This reply is not meant to bash your language BTW. Neither is this reply meant to irritate anyone, it's just how things look from my perspective.

That's perfectly okay. A lot of us native anglophones find our language plenty irritating as it is.

[CorporalCaptain]

at Quark's wrote:

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Is there actually any internal logic to it for an average native speaker (i.e. no linguistic scholar), or is it just something you 'are used to because that's the way English is written', like I have become over the years?

That's a great question.

Unfortunately, I can't answer it. Because my father was a linguistic scholar, and I was exposed to all that growing up, I don't have the average perspective you're looking for.

FWIW, since I'm not actually a linguist myself, I'm aware of pronunciation patterns mostly on a subconscious level.

But I do know some stuff from dad. For instance, about that Orion example I mentioned above: As a word of Greek origin, OR-ee-on makes sense as its pre-Great Vowel Shift pronunciation. But, since we generally honor the shift, we say or-RYE-on. In the case of that word, knowing how to pronounce it correctly is strictly a function of knowing that it is a word in colloquial use. Since it is, the Great Vowel Shift applies (in that case).

But there are nuances and exceptions, and semi- provides an example of that. The prefix semi- is Latin (from Greek hemi-), so pre-Great Vowel Shift semi rhymes with me. Don't ask me why, but Americans pronounce it that way when they say semiconductor. Perhaps the reason for that is that it just roles off the tongue easier that way (it's a five syllable word, after all), or maybe it's because it's (originally) a non-colloquial technical word; or maybe it's a combination, I don't know.

On the other hand, the word semi by itself (meaning semitrailer), requires rhyming with eye, and it is definitely a word in colloquial use. If you say it the other way, it will sound ridiculously pretentious. I personally suspect that that's because the American ear can tell that rhyming semi with me harkens back to the way Europeans might prefer it to be pronounced. As far as I can tell, native American speakers have the instinct to pick that up more or less automatically, and reject rhyming semi as a word by itself with me under any circumstances.

All that's my non-expert view.