RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,354
Posts: 5,502,938
Members: 25,121
Currently online: 598
Newest member: MsMarrielle

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 1 2013, 12:39 AM   #91
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why Khan?

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I'm asking for THEME. I'm asking for a subject matter that leaves me thinking after the movie. I want them to take a subject and flesh it out in as many different ways as possible. Provide counter opinions for a healthy debate, but still make it true to life.
I took from ST 2009 that it was the "Nature vs Nurture" debate. Two Kirks we know: one grows up with a Mum and Dad, goes to Starfleet, makes great choices in life, commands a famous starship and makes it more famous. Another loses his Dad at birth, is rudderless for way too many years, makes poor choices, until Pike sponsors him. Isn't it also about fate?: is every Kirk destined to command the Enterprise? Certainly, he does in the Prime Universe, the Mirror Universe and this new timeline.

Spock and Uhura: their choice to have a relationship in this new timeline puts them on different personal arcs than in the Prime Universe. This Spock also has a very different father/son relationship than the Prime Universe Spock, who did not speak to Sarek as father-and-son for decades. And they have now lost Amanda and their home planet. How will it affect their futures?

Pike's destiny: crippled in both timelines.

After the film, my friends and I enjoyed many healthy debates about "Nature vs Nurture" and Fate and Destiny. Too bad you weren't there.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 12:47 AM   #92
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: Why Khan?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
If an artist is just going to put drama on the big screen--this character is angry, that one is happy, they clash and the angry one makes the happy one suffer--then that's not deep enough for me to enjoy it. You what that is called? A soap opera. A bad one.
No it's called "your straw man." It's not even a reasonable description of drama.
It's a conflict--the very definition of drama. It's a basic one, but one I see often in movies.
__________________
"Cogley was old-fashioned, preferring paper books to computers. He had an extensive collection of books, he claimed never to use the computer in his office."
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 12:54 AM   #93
HaventGotALife
Fleet Captain
 
HaventGotALife's Avatar
 
Re: Why Khan?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I'm asking for THEME. I'm asking for a subject matter that leaves me thinking after the movie. I want them to take a subject and flesh it out in as many different ways as possible. Provide counter opinions for a healthy debate, but still make it true to life.
I took from ST 2009 that it was the "Nature vs Nurture" debate. Two Kirks we know: one grows up with a Mum and Dad, goes to Starfleet, makes great choices in life, commands a famous starship and makes it more famous. Another loses his Dad at birth, is rudderless for way too many years, makes poor choices, until Pike sponsors him. Isn't it also about fate?: is every Kirk destined to command the Enterprise? Certainly, he does in the Prime Universe, the Mirror Universe and this new timeline.

Spock and Uhura: their choice to have a relationship in this new timeline puts them on different personal arcs than in the Prime Universe. This Spock also has a very different father/son relationship than the Prime Universe Spock, who did not speak to Sarek as father-and-son for decades. And they have now lost Amanda and their home planet. How will it affect their futures?

Pike's destiny: crippled in both timelines.

After the film, my friends and I enjoyed many healthy debates about "Nature vs Nurture" and Fate and Destiny. Too bad you weren't there.
I also saw that--but I saw it in Nemesis as well. And that's when I had the debate, with my father. This is a better executed version of Nemesis. Vengeance. Trauma that leads to anger. Kirk left without any tempering by his father in comparison to Spock. Shinzon led by his pseudo-father that teaches him that hope is childish and Picard's completely different philosophy because their lives created "a unique individual."

Spock going on a vendetta after his father's conversation about how he shouldn't try to hide his anger is another reason why it doesn't hold up. Spock isn't any better off than Kirk. I would also add that Kirk has father figures. He has Pike "Your father was Captain of a Starship for 10 minutes...," and Prime Spock.

It's also on display that Spock is wrong. "A captain cannot cheat death." Kirk cheats death all the time and his recklessness has proven to keep him alive, "something Starfleet's lost." It's encouraged. And I don't think that's all that good to be putting forth. It's a movie and you can manipulate circumstances. Sometimes people lose and what I hope is that they continue with this character trait and have him lose to temper his arrogance.
__________________
"Cogley was old-fashioned, preferring paper books to computers. He had an extensive collection of books, he claimed never to use the computer in his office."
HaventGotALife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 03:56 AM   #94
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Why Khan?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
In fact, wasn't Koloth originally intended to be a recurring character although that never went through?
John Colicos as Kor was slated to be the recurring Klingon adversary for Kirk, but he notified that he was unavailable for "The Trouble With Tribbles". Then, he was supposed to play Kor in "Day of the Dove", but was again unavailable.
According to Memory Alpha Koloth was meant to be a recurring character. In fact, I've often wondered if in Trials and Tribble-Ations Dax's comment about Koloth regretting never facing Kirk in battle was a reference to those plans falling through.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 09:48 AM   #95
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why Khan?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
According to Memory Alpha Koloth was meant to be a recurring character.
And I quote you this page:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kor#...nd_information
"Kor was to have appeared in 'Day of the Dove', but John Colicos was not available."

According to David Gerrold's "Making of..." book, IIRC, Kor was first slated to be the Klingon antagonist returning for "Tribbles". Memory Alpha is only as reliable as the fans entering the data.

John Colicos had even helped with the creation of the Klingon makeup, as used in "Errand of Mercy", and was quite invested in the character. Fred Phillips forgot that they'd used a greenish brown greasepaint combination, so the "Tribbles" Klingons ended up caucasian.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 08:35 AM   #96
CommanderRaytas
Rear Admiral
 
CommanderRaytas's Avatar
 
Location: AT4W...WITH SCIENCE!!!!!
Re: Why Khan?

You know, now I almost want Cumby to be White English! Khan, because if the mere possibility sparks this much enthusiasm / anger, imagine what will happen if it turns out to be true. It will be far more entertaining than the hate the lens flare got.
__________________
It was a nice day ... AND THEN EVIL CAME!The Collected Works of Stephen King, condensed version
CommanderRaytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 09:50 AM   #97
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Why Khan?

I don't know. We're all used to the idea of Cumberbatch being Khan that I'm fairly sure our reaction to him being a white guy is played out. We've had a year to go through "Cumberbatch isn't Indian." "Neither was Ricardo Montalban." "How dare you go there! Your mother!!" Really, even if the movie did make it clear he was Khan, there'd be some grumblings from the Never Happy Crowd but I don't think it would be far beyond that.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 09:55 AM   #98
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: Why Khan?

Yeah, it's Khanfounding.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 10:16 AM   #99
CommanderRaytas
Rear Admiral
 
CommanderRaytas's Avatar
 
Location: AT4W...WITH SCIENCE!!!!!
Re: Why Khan?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I don't know. We're all used to the idea of Cumberbatch being Khan that I'm fairly sure our reaction to him being a white guy is played out. We've had a year to go through "Cumberbatch isn't Indian." "Neither was Ricardo Montalban." "How dare you go there! Your mother!!" Really, even if the movie did make it clear he was Khan, there'd be some grumblings from the Never Happy Crowd but I don't think it would be far beyond that.
I don't know about that. Never underestimate the power of righteous fan rage. Hell, I'd be ranting just for the sake of it....

Seriously though, I'm sure the film will be awesome. Cumby will do a great job, Khan or no.
__________________
It was a nice day ... AND THEN EVIL CAME!The Collected Works of Stephen King, condensed version
CommanderRaytas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 12:46 PM   #100
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Why Khan?

With the possibility of White British Khan looming, I made this handy comparison:

I think CumberKhan would fit in perfectly
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 01:13 PM   #101
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Why Khan?

Man, Kirstie Alley was so much hotter as Saavik.

Only one of those that bugs me is Simon Pegg. He's a kinda funny original character but he doesn't really resemble Scotty at all, who was pretty calm in TOS. Hope he tones it down in this outing.

...and I still think Cumberbatch is playing John Harrison. I don't see the point of deceit at this stage.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 02:48 PM   #102
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Why Khan?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Only one of those that bugs me is Simon Pegg. He's a kinda funny original character but he doesn't really resemble Scotty at all, who was pretty calm in TOS. Hope he tones it down in this outing.
Simon Pegg wants Scotty to be a more serious character in the vein of TOS, but Abrams and his cohorts insist on making him a purely comedic character.

And really, out of that above list, the only case of recasting that was questionable was Zefram Cochrane. Don't get me wrong, James Cromwell was perfect for the role, though he was older than canon said the character should have been at that point. Then again, Braga and Moore didn't want to be slavish to what was established about him in TOS and at the early stages of planning had even considered making the character a woman.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 03:38 PM   #103
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Why Khan?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Man, Kirstie Alley was so much hotter as Saavik.

Only one of those that bugs me is Simon Pegg. He's a kinda funny original character but he doesn't really resemble Scotty at all, who was pretty calm in TOS. Hope he tones it down in this outing.

...and I still think Cumberbatch is playing John Harrison. I don't see the point of deceit at this stage.
Calm? He was almost as excitable as McCoy or Chekov!!! Especially if his engines or girlfriend was involved.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 04:16 PM   #104
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Why Khan?

He could definitely get excitable and passionate but Scotty was never a manic character in TOS. Even the movies where he was more of a buffoon, the character was pretty chilled out.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 04:18 PM   #105
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Why Khan?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Man, Kirstie Alley was so much hotter as Saavik.
Amen.

We should also note that the Trills changed their look for the better between TNG and DS9 . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.