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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 1 2013, 04:14 AM   #31
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I like Encounter at Farpoint. It wasn't perfect and it had a heavy helping of smugness, and was a clear instance of a show that hadn't figured itself out yet, but I think Picard's attitude toward Q saved the episode and made it interesting, and I like that the test was to intuit the existence of life unlike one's self.

Emissary is the absolute clear winner for pilots, but Caretaker and Farpoint are solid B's to me. The only bad pilot IMO is Broken Bow.

@Dick

Come on, I would *totally* do Jeff Foxworthy.

Anything's better than Marina Sirtis trying to do a Russian accent. Why Stargate why?!
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Old March 1 2013, 04:31 AM   #32
Guy Gardener
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

You understand that the Actress speaks with an English Accent when no one is giving her money?

Marina was 31 before she moved to the States, so her "accent" isn't going anywhere.
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Old March 1 2013, 03:21 PM   #33
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teya wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
As for Indian stereotypes, when I think of Chakotay in this ep, I think of Tom's conversation with Janeway in New Zealand.
And, see, as an Indian, I think of such cringeworthy moments as Tom's life belonging to Chakotay and incoherent babble about turning into a bird & flying out of there.

A noble savage is still a savage. A positive stereotype is still a stereotype.

They couldn't even be bothered to give the man a real tribe.
I see your point.

I also see why young white men would cringe at the young white male stereotype in Tom's conversation with Janeway.
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Old March 1 2013, 03:29 PM   #34
Guy Gardener
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Tom is 25?

The Stereotype he's manifesting is Opie Taylor.

7 year old Ron Howard.
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Old March 1 2013, 08:13 PM   #35
teya
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
As for Indian stereotypes, when I think of Chakotay in this ep, I think of Tom's conversation with Janeway in New Zealand.
And, see, as an Indian, I think of such cringeworthy moments as Tom's life belonging to Chakotay and incoherent babble about turning into a bird & flying out of there.

A noble savage is still a savage. A positive stereotype is still a stereotype.

They couldn't even be bothered to give the man a real tribe.
I see your point.

I also see why young white men would cringe at the young white male stereotype in Tom's conversation with Janeway.
Maybe they would.

However there are lots of fine, upstanding examples of white malehood in Star Trek.

There is only one Indian.

When they first announced that Voyager would have an American Indian crew member, we were thrilled. He could be inspirational, the way Uhura was in the 60s.

Then they made the character completely unrecognizable as an Indian to other Indians. So much for inspirational.
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Old March 1 2013, 10:17 PM   #36
teacake
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I also see why young white men would cringe at the young white male stereotype in Tom's conversation with Janeway.
Young white men cringe?
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Old March 1 2013, 11:29 PM   #37
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teacake wrote: View Post
JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I also see why young white men would cringe at the young white male stereotype in Tom's conversation with Janeway.
Young white men cringe?
New Grunge Band?
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Old March 1 2013, 11:38 PM   #38
Guy Gardener
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Any one have a problem with Cringer from Masters of the Universe?

It's a talking house cat that's afraid of everything comic relief.

Then Prince Adam says his magic word and Cringer loses 90 IQ points and gains 2000 pounds of muscle density and is utterly fearless.

And when your pet can talk, it's not a pet, it's a slave.

I'm surprised He-Man didn't use a riding crop while riding Battlecat.

Given that example, should the US Army lobotomise and pump full of steroids all the recruits passing through boot camp?
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Old March 2 2013, 06:54 AM   #39
DeepSpaceWine
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Any one have a problem with Cringer from Masters of the Universe?

It's a talking house cat that's afraid of everything comic relief.

Then Prince Adam says his magic word and Cringer loses 90 IQ points and gains 2000 pounds of muscle density and is utterly fearless.

And when your pet can talk, it's not a pet, it's a slave.

I'm surprised He-Man didn't use a riding crop while riding Battlecat.

Given that example, should the US Army lobotomise and pump full of steroids all the recruits passing through boot camp?
Well, Luna of the Lunataks on Thundercats used a riding crop when she rode Amok. BTW, Panthro was voiced by the grandpa from The Cosby Show.

Speaking of He-Man, Skeletor (who also voiced Cringer & Battlecat) is the captain of the Odyssey, Koroth from "Rightful Heir", and the ambassador in the greatest space elevator story produced in the year of 1997, "Rise". DS9 liked getting cartoon villains as they also had the voice of Cobra Commander/Starscream as characters in "The Passenger" & "Blood Oath" (he was also in TNG). Unfortunately Destro never graced Star Trek. He had a great voice.
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Old March 5 2013, 10:43 AM   #40
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Parallax

A pretty bog standard Star Trek temporal anomaly helps frame a situation that exemplifies the friction between the Starfleet and Marquis crews.

A good episode that needed to happen. Janeway wants to bury the majority of the Marquis crew in minor roles due to 'regulations'. A rather short sighted stance for someone who's just been forced into a 75 year journey. Chakotay is the voice of reason here, the one person who points out that they need to find a balance between the two.

I also liked how much Janeway's science background comes into play, first when she wants the readings of the anomaly sent to her ready room for her own readings, then later as she warms up to Torres and they start riffing on solutions. Though she seriously gets a bit too close to Torres' face. This is a woman that started the episode by breaking someone's nose.

All in all a good episode that does well to further the characters and the Marquis/Starfleet situation on the ship.
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Old March 6 2013, 07:42 PM   #41
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Just perused this thread, two things stand out:

Country stereotypes: If they took the image of country life which may well be completely different in the 24th century, it is possible that Paris' mind in particular or even Janeway's was idealized, generalized, and homogenized, with the result we saw on screen.

Indian stereotypes: Chakotay seems to be written as many real life individual Indians I've seen on TV who are making an effort to preserve specific aspects of their past. As such I don't find fault with the character, even if I find fault with the beliefs themselves. I don't think we are menat to believe all Indians (Native Americans) subscribe to such beliefs. I think we're also led to believe this is an aspect of being different or even a rebel that manifests itself within Chakotay to the point he does something else others wouldn't: join the Maquis.

I'm not actually a huge fan of Robert Beltran's acting, but I recall seeing the producers made an effort not to be stereotypical. For the most part Chakotay did seem like a professional 24th century, former Starfleet member.

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Old March 7 2013, 10:18 PM   #42
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

When I watched it it originally, I felt Chakotay had the potential to be one of the most interesting characters in the show. Watching Parallax again reminded me of why I thought that, his balancing of the crew showed he was quite aware of how to get the most out of the split crew.

It's a shame the character slipped. Though part of why I'm rewatching is to see if the show is how I remember it, as well as finally finishing it.
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Old March 8 2013, 10:20 AM   #43
teacake
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I don't think the potential ever got off the paper.
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Old March 8 2013, 10:26 AM   #44
TayLaLaLa
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Skip to S4 when The Sweetness Of Nine was born.
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Old March 8 2013, 11:46 PM   #45
NightJim
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teacake wrote: View Post
I don't think the potential ever got off the paper.
Honestly, I think it was there in Parallax. Though I could see that being the entire character drive they envisioned and they were then left thinking "err now what?"

It's certainly not there in Time and Again.

The first disappointing episode of the journey. Another time anomaly episode straight after the other one? Excellent scheduling there. Apart from that, the fact that basically the episode never happens is terrible. I realise that's a argument that could be levelled at the fantastic Year of Hell further down the road, but at least that was dramatic. Time and Again just never seemed to get going.

Kes' superpowers are starting to come into it, which I guess could prove interesting, while I remember how that particular story ends I can't remember the rest of the journey so that's got me intrigued.

Meanwhile, what is quickly becoming a highlight of the whole thing is The Doctor. His journey from evolving from some emergency holo program to a proper character is great, as is the failure of everyone to take him the slightest bit seriously as they still just see him as a tool, not a person. Two episodes on the trot and his concerns are completely ignored. His short scene with Neelix and Kes is the highlight of the episode.

Oh God Neelix. The character brought onboard for his knowledge of the region, yet other than Caretaker, hasn't known a single thing. I realise we're only two episodes in post Pilot, but these early episodes should be highlighting the differences and difficulties that Voyager should be facing, instead it's generic filler.

Last edited by NightJim; March 8 2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: spelling
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