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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 1 2013, 03:16 PM   #1
WesleysDisciple
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Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Any ideas how Dukat, went from being a Military dictator, to being a religous fanatic?
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Old March 1 2013, 03:38 PM   #2
Deranged Nasat
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

I think it has to do with his obsession with Sisko, his need to keep up with and hopefully outdo the one man who he's fixated on as his rival. Some fans have expressed their dissatisfaction with Dukat's blaming Sisko for everything (even blaming him instead of Damar for Ziyal's death), but to me it makes very real sense in a twisted, irrational way: Sisko has everything Dukat wanted, and is stealing Dukat's life from him; therefore, Dukat must become more like Sisko. Sisko succeeded where Dukat failed; part of that was by having the support of the Prophets. Dukat therefore will now be emissary for his own group of wormhole aliens, and readdress the failing.

We could also say that briefly hosting a pah-wraith in Tears of the Prophets changed him entirely, made him a puppet of the pah-wraiths, but that cheapens his character to such an appalling extent I'd much rather explain his actions in season 7 in terms of his pre-existing personality, which I think it can be.
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Old March 1 2013, 03:41 PM   #3
DalekJim
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Because the writers decided to turn the most complex interesting villain in Star Trek history in to a 2d evil cartoon.
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Old March 1 2013, 03:47 PM   #4
Deranged Nasat
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Because the writers decided to turn the most complex interesting villain in Star Trek history in to a 2d evil cartoon.
That too.

Yeah, a large part of it was the desire to curb the "Draco in Leather Pants" phenomenon, but I think the pah-wraith arc still makes sense in terms of how Dukat thinks, regardless.
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Old March 1 2013, 04:15 PM   #5
dub
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
I think it has to do with his obsession with Sisko, his need to keep up with and hopefully outdo the one man who he's fixated on as his rival. Some fans have expressed their dissatisfaction with Dukat's blaming Sisko for everything (even blaming him instead of Damar for Ziyal's death), but to me it makes very real sense in a twisted, irrational way: Sisko has everything Dukat wanted, and is stealing Dukat's life from him; therefore, Dukat must become more like Sisko. Sisko succeeded where Dukat failed; part of that was by having the support of the Prophets. Dukat therefore will now be emissary for his own group of wormhole aliens, and readdress the failing.

We could also say that briefly hosting a pah-wraith in Tears of the Prophets changed him entirely, made him a puppet of the pah-wraiths, but that cheapens his character to such an appalling extent I'd much rather explain his actions in season 7 in terms of his pre-existing personality, which I think it can be.
I would also add Dukat's obsession with Bajor in general and his guilt for the occupation and his part in it, as well as his guilt for beloved Cardassia participating in it. I would argue that all of that came to a head and drove him to madness. The pah-wraith took advantage of that.
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Old March 1 2013, 06:58 PM   #6
Phily B
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

His obsession with Bajor and the Bajorans which cost him everything. Twice. The second time it sent him insane, though I'm still not a fan of when Sisko calls him pure evil and the writers go out of their way to hammer this point home.
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Old March 2 2013, 07:52 AM   #7
Muldfeld
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Phily B wrote: View Post
His obsession with Bajor and the Bajorans which cost him everything. Twice. The second time it sent him insane, though I'm still not a fan of when Sisko calls him pure evil and the writers go out of their way to hammer this point home.
Just today, I acted like Sisko and thought about Barack Obama is pure evil for what he's doing to Bradley Manning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-pleads-guilty

In the same way, I feel a certain visceral unwillingness to excuse his behavior in this case -- in addition to drone killings in the Muslim world. I just feel it the way Sisko felt it, regardless of whether they have good traits like being good fathers, etc.
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Old March 2 2013, 01:22 PM   #8
Phily B
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Good point RE:Obama, but ultimately I'd take Obama over many other world leaders past and present. I certainly wouldn't call him pure evil! Same with Dukat, he was an evil man, but he made some interesting points about himself throughout the series. In his eyes, he was a saviour to Bajor and a good thing for it, fighting with his commanders on Cardassian to abolish child labour and offer the Bajorans the carrot etc. Great character, and while I wish he died in Waltz, I didn't mind his descent into madness even if the whole Kai Winn part was really boring and iffy.
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Old March 2 2013, 06:57 PM   #9
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

Dukat was just an opportunist who decided that making use of the pah-wraiths would be a good way for him to get power.
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Old March 3 2013, 04:28 AM   #10
Iliana Malek
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Re: Dukat, Waltz to Covenant

I think that's a little simplistic. Dukat was always a very complex character, I think that just saying that he was opportunistic isn't giving him enough credit, just like Sisko saying he was evil is too simplistc. Yes, he was an opportunist, and yes, he did bad things, but by the time he turned to a being a cult leader, the man had a very broken mind. Perhaps he did believe in the pah-wraiths to some extent, if only that they were the only aliens he knew of that could emiminate the Prophets and remove their influence.

I agree that his rivalry with Sisko had a great deal to do with it, as well. He wanted to be perceived as the hero of Bajor, and when Sisko took that place, without having to do anything but show up to the party, he may have felt cheated. Ruling the pah-wraith cult, however small it might have been, was his way of trying to attain the position he felt he deserved.
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