Voyager again, for the first time

[Guy Gardener]

Neelix found a wingman?

[Lynx]

"Caretaker" is number 3 on my Voyager favorite episode list (after "Cold Fire" and "Persistence Of Vision") and in my opinion the best pilot episode in any Star Trek series, maybe in all of the series I've watched. Right now I can't remember anything which beats "Caretaker" when it comes to pilot episodes.

The characters is introduced in a very good way and the episode is exciting and entertaining from the first minute to the last.

The only thing I really miss is a banjo duet between The Caretaker and Neelix. Just think of those two playing that "Dueling Banjo" theme from that movie.

The we could have had the old lady from the holographic farm dancing and clapping her hands in front of them. Now that would have made my day, she's a dead ringer to an old woman who lived in my hometown when I was a kid.

[teya]

^ Ah, Voyager. Promulgating stupid Indian stereotypes & stupid farm people stereotypes all in one fell swoop...

[Lynx]

^^
I don't find those farm people stupid.

And if we're going to nitpick, they weren't supposed to be "real" farm people but holographic farm people.

[teya]

Lynx wrote:

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^^
I don't find those farm people stupid.

And if we're going to nitpick, they weren't supposed to be "real" farm people but holographic farm people.

Actually, I said the stereotypes were stupid. And they were. Corny accents, banjos, a slutty version of Ellie Mae Clampett and, well, corn... Yee haw! Let's have a hoe-down!

Once again, it's a perfect example of using stereotypes that make it patently obvious that TPTB have never set foot on a farm.

And since Janeway supposedly grew up in farm country (even to the point where she could tell the difference between manures by smell), that's a stereotypical (and unrealistic) image they took from her brain to create the illusion.

ETA: You really don't think that the stereotype of a slutty farm girl is offensive? Stupid?

[Sindatur]

teya wrote:

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ETA: You really don't think that the stereotype of a slutty farm girl is offensive? Stupid?

Not as long as they stay away from the schtick of her brothers chasing her for some (Sorry couldn't resist )

Yea, they did go overboard, when I recently did my rewatch, I couldn't help of thinking of 2001 Maniacs (Came out in 2005)

[teacake]

teya wrote:

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Actually, I said the stereotypes were stupid. And they were. Corny accents, banjos, a slutty version of Ellie Mae Clampett and, well, corn... Yee haw! Let's have a hoe-down!

Once again, it's a perfect example of using stereotypes that make it patently obvious that TPTB have never set foot on a farm.

And since Janeway supposedly grew up in farm country (even to the point where she could tell the difference between manures by smell), that's a stereotypical (and unrealistic) image they took from her brain to create the illusion.

ETA: You really don't think that the stereotype of a slutty farm girl is offensive? Stupid?

But they didn't take it from Janeway's brain! They took it from Paris's brain and it was straight out of his Beverly Hillbillies late night popcorn viewing.

[JanewayRulz!]

TEYA wrote
^ Ah, Voyager. Promulgating stupid Indian stereotypes & stupid farm people stereotypes all in one fell swoop...

But wasn't that supposed to be the point, that the Caretaker's holograms were a "stupid stereotype"?


As for Indian stereotypes, when I think of Chakotay in this ep, I think of Tom's conversation with Janeway in New Zealand.

PARIS: Chakotay will tell you he left Starfleet on principle, to defend his home colony from the Cardassians. I, on the other hand, was forced to resign. He considered me a mercenary, willing to fight for anyone who'd pay my bar bill. Trouble is, he was right. I have no problem helping you track down my friends in the Maquis, Captain. All I need to know from you is what's in it for me.

teacake wrote:

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And Voyager stunted you. Squashed your little brains into its petty definition of wonder and its instant fix "science". Pummeled you with racist and specieist truths all newspeaked into Federation ideals. GUTTED the Borg. How are you supposed to expand and grow after that happens?!

Thank goodness I had TOS. I never suffered like you young 'uns did.

You are so funny.

signed,

a former young'un

[teya]

JanewayRulz! wrote:

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As for Indian stereotypes, when I think of Chakotay in this ep, I think of Tom's conversation with Janeway in New Zealand.

And, see, as an Indian, I think of such cringeworthy moments as Tom's life belonging to Chakotay and incoherent babble about turning into a bird & flying out of there.

A noble savage is still a savage. A positive stereotype is still a stereotype.

They couldn't even be bothered to give the man a real tribe.

[teya]

teacake wrote:

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But they didn't take it from Janeway's brain! They took it from Paris's brain and it was straight out of his Beverly Hillbillies late night popcorn viewing.

Now that makes sense. In a Voyager sort of way.

[Guy Gardener]

Those farm people were from the 1930s.

They weren't stereotypes more so than archetypes.

[teya]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Those farm people were from the 1930s.

They weren't stereotypes more so than archetypes.

I'm curious and need the perspective of folks from outside the states.

Based on TV, what do you think Americans sound like? Do we all sound alike to you?

I mean, I know the average American can't tell the difference between an Australian accent & a British accent, so I'm wondering if it's the same for you. Does NY and Georgia sound the same to you?

[teacake]

No, they sound very different IRL. But people on television all have the same accent unless the character is about them being from the south, or the bronx or whatever.

[Guy Gardener]

Doctor Doolittle I am not, but it's pretty obvious to delineate one side of the country form the other.

But the window we get into America is movies and scripted fiction where after so many classes and a lot of coaching that a uniform acceptable accent for TV has been constructed.

I quite like Dallas, Nashville and Hart of Dixie at the moment, but 90 percent of the ascents in those shows are fake, and terrible, which is only going to misrepresent my belief in Americana a little more.

I've met a handful of Americans in my life and they never sound like TV.

North from south is piss easy.

The different souths?

Too far north and Canadianisms start slipping in.

Maybe this is a better question for someone who watches "relaity TV" or has actually travelled through America.

[Dick_Valentine]

teya wrote:

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I'm curious and need the perspective of folks from outside the states.

Based on TV, what do you think Americans sound like? Do we all sound alike to you?

I mean, I know the average American can't tell the difference between an Australian accent & a British accent, so I'm wondering if it's the same for you. Does NY and Georgia sound the same to you?

I'm British....

I can tell the difference between Dale Earndheart Jr and Frasier Crane. And Homer Simpson sounds different to Dr Cox from Scrubs, etc.

Ask someone here to do a NY accent and they'll probably do Chandler/Joey from friends (How you doin,...could I BE any more of a stereotype, etc)
Ask them to do anything southern they'll probably do Foghorn Leghorn.

P.S. tell your friends we have more than 2 accents (Royal and cockney..) thank you very much