Star Trek: INS- Son'a/Dominion Question - Page 8

Robert Maxwell · February 28 2013, 05:15 PM

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

T'Girl wrote:

First, it difficult to see how you consider the estrangement of the Baku and the Sona to be a matter that falls under the Prime Directive.

The PD has been used more than once to block the Federation from interfering in the internal affairs of another society--namely, blood feuds like that between the Son'a and Ba'ku.

The Federation was involved well beyond that. They were going to move 600 non-citizens to another planet without their knowledge. That sort of deception is beneath the Federation.

And, what, kill the Ba'ku? So much for a benevolent union of worlds.

All that was stated in the movie is that it was a "planet in Federation space." That does not make it "a Federation planet." Those are separate distinctions. The Ba'ku settled it first. By any reasonable legal definition, it's the Ba'ku's planet (and arguably the Son'a's, too.)

This would be the part where Picard employs the Baku children as human shields. Picard could have transferred the children to the Enterprise prior to it's departure, also the "Captain's gig" could have remove at least some of the children. Picard brought a considerable amount of weapons to the surface, he was expecting trouble.

Come on, saying Picard used children as human shields is just nasty hyperbole.

Why no one was evacuated is a fair point, but then the Ba'ku were probably not amenable to having any of their people taken from the surface. Let's face it, they were distrustful of the Federation and had an ongoing conflict with the Son'a. They probably figured that anyone who was taken from the planet would never be able to return--a perfectly legitimate concern from the Ba'ku's standpoint. "Oh yeah, sure, we'll protect your kids on the Enterprise. You can trust us." I can see the Ba'ku not believing such an offer as genuine, after the Federation deceived them.

your post sort of leads to an odd moral for the story: you admit that the Baku and Son'a dispute was an internal one, and that only Dougherty's bringing the Federation in made Picard's interference not a violation of the PD. Fair enough.

It was indeed an internal dispute, however the Ba'ku were content to live their lives in seclusion without ever bothering anyone. The Son'a wanted to harvest the radiation for themselves and remain a spacebound civilization. If we take Federation involvement as a foregone conclusion, the known facts indicate that the Ba'ku were never violent or hostile toward the Son'a who rebelled--in fact, they welcomed some of them back with open arms once the hostilities were over. Ru'afo's sect tried to assume leadership for themselves, and were exiled for it. The Ba'ku were in the right, as far as that goes.

So again, the big blunder here was the Son'a being reasonable and diplomatic in trying to work with the UFP and in bothering with this elaborate plan. RU'AFO WAS RIGHT! The mission WAS one "Federation disaster after another."

I believe I said before that it was a calculated risk on his part, undertaken mainly to get access to the planet without the Federation treating his fleet as hostile.

Ru'afo should have told the truth to Dougherty from the beginning, sought permission to enter Federation space, removed the Baku with no ceremony or deception, and then shared the resources with the Federation, while promising Dougherty that the Federation would have plausible deniability and wouldn't be involved in doing anything to the Baku.

I doubt the Federation would have been inclined to grant Ru'afo anything at all, considering that the Son'a were a known Dominion ally, and he basically would've been asking the Federation to enable him in carrying out a personal vendetta. Their response more likely would have been, "Are you fucking kidding? No, you're not going to waltz through our space so you can kick your parents off their planet and use its magical radiation to heal yourselves. You helped the Dominion, for crying out loud. You'd probably just as soon slaughter them all. GTFO our territory." Instead, he approached the Federation with a deal that offered them something extremely tantalizing, and no doubt portrayed it as a very simple operation that could be completed quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

Again, an odd moral for the story: the Son'a were too willing to be cooperative, when really they should have taken care of the Baku themselves, giving Picard no reason to intervene.

If not for Data being there, the Enterprise never would've been involved, and yes, Ru'afo probably would've just exterminated the Ba'ku and either taken over the planet or used the collector. The Federation can hardly be blamed for not stopping an atrocity they didn't even know was going to happen.

sonak · February 28 2013, 05:19 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

The PD has been used more than once to block the Federation from interfering in the internal affairs of another society--namely, blood feuds like that between the Son'a and Ba'ku.

The Federation was involved well beyond that. They were going to move 600 non-citizens to another planet without their knowledge. That sort of deception is beneath the Federation.

And, what, kill the Ba'ku? So much for a benevolent union of worlds.

All that was stated in the movie is that it was a "planet in Federation space." That does not make it "a Federation planet." Those are separate distinctions. The Ba'ku settled it first. By any reasonable legal definition, it's the Ba'ku's planet (and arguably the Son'a's, too.)

Come on, saying Picard used children as human shields is just nasty hyperbole.

Why no one was evacuated is a fair point, but then the Ba'ku were probably not amenable to having any of their people taken from the surface. Let's face it, they were distrustful of the Federation and had an ongoing conflict with the Son'a. They probably figured that anyone who was taken from the planet would never be able to return--a perfectly legitimate concern from the Ba'ku's standpoint. "Oh yeah, sure, we'll protect your kids on the Enterprise. You can trust us." I can see the Ba'ku not believing such an offer as genuine, after the Federation deceived them.

your post sort of leads to an odd moral for the story: you admit that the Baku and Son'a dispute was an internal one, and that only Dougherty's bringing the Federation in made Picard's interference not a violation of the PD. Fair enough.

It was indeed an internal dispute, however the Ba'ku were content to live their lives in seclusion without ever bothering anyone. The Son'a wanted to harvest the radiation for themselves and remain a spacebound civilization. If we take Federation involvement as a foregone conclusion, the known facts indicate that the Ba'ku were never violent or hostile toward the Son'a who rebelled--in fact, they welcomed some of them back with open arms once the hostilities were over. Ru'afo's sect tried to assume leadership for themselves, and were exiled for it. The Ba'ku were in the right, as far as that goes.

I believe I said before that it was a calculated risk on his part, undertaken mainly to get access to the planet without the Federation treating his fleet as hostile.

Ru'afo should have told the truth to Dougherty from the beginning, sought permission to enter Federation space, removed the Baku with no ceremony or deception, and then shared the resources with the Federation, while promising Dougherty that the Federation would have plausible deniability and wouldn't be involved in doing anything to the Baku.

I doubt the Federation would have been inclined to grant Ru'afo anything at all, considering that the Son'a were a known Dominion ally, and he basically would've been asking the Federation to enable him in carrying out a personal vendetta. Their response more likely would have been, "Are you fucking kidding? No, you're not going to waltz through our space so you can kick your parents off their planet and use its magical radiation to heal yourselves. You helped the Dominion, for crying out loud. You'd probably just as soon slaughter them all. GTFO our territory." Instead, he approached the Federation with a deal that offered them something extremely tantalizing, and no doubt portrayed it as a very simple operation that could be completed quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

Again, an odd moral for the story: the Son'a were too willing to be cooperative, when really they should have taken care of the Baku themselves, giving Picard no reason to intervene.

If not for Data being there, the Enterprise never would've been involved, and yes, Ru'afo probably would've just exterminated the Ba'ku and either taken over the planet or used the collector. The Federation can hardly be blamed for not stopping an atrocity they didn't even know was going to happen.

well we disagree on how "pure" powers at war can afford to be. Ru'afo was offering Dougherty a potential key to victory at NO COST to the UFP. Drug-suppliers to the Dominion or not, Dougherty would have been a fool not to take the Son'a deal.

Trekker4747 · February 28 2013, 05:22 PM

I, for one, question how the Federation could lay claim on a planet they hadn't made official contact with and claimed it SO MUCH that they felt it was their "right" to relocate the population of the planet in order to "restore them to their natural evolution" when the people on the planet got there before there even WAS a Federation. It seemed like a convenient re-interpretation of their rules and something Roddenberry always thought humans had "evolved past" by the 24th century so everything that happens in the movie, as far as the Federation is concerned, is against the very nature of the universe.

tighr · February 28 2013, 05:36 PM

Locutus of Bored wrote:

I've got certain issues with the Bak'u's rigid ideology in regard to both the Son'a when they were exiled and towards Picard's crew, but nothing you say above is supported by the film at all.

I know the film states that they were exiled, but based on how readily the Ba'ku welcome them back at the end of the film it seems more like a self-exile. They tried to take over the colony (including a return to technology), were found to be in the minority, and subsequently left. It seems as if the Ba'ku would not have kicked them off the planet if the Son'a simply abandoned their plans to use technology.

As another poster upthread stated, the Ba'ku had very simple rules for their planet: No technology. They would probably have been receptive to offworlders if they had been asked, but no one bothered to ask.

As far as the Federation establishing a "spa" or rehab colony on the planet, it would probably have to be governed under the local laws of the Ba'ku, including no technology. That would limit the number of Federation citizens interested in making the planet a home. Being that the planet was in the Briar Patch and not very hospitable to travel in the first place, it makes sense why the Federation agreed to the particle theft plan. They (wrongly) figured no one would want to live on that crappy planet anyway.

Robert Maxwell · February 28 2013, 05:36 PM

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

your post sort of leads to an odd moral for the story: you admit that the Baku and Son'a dispute was an internal one, and that only Dougherty's bringing the Federation in made Picard's interference not a violation of the PD. Fair enough.

It was indeed an internal dispute, however the Ba'ku were content to live their lives in seclusion without ever bothering anyone. The Son'a wanted to harvest the radiation for themselves and remain a spacebound civilization. If we take Federation involvement as a foregone conclusion, the known facts indicate that the Ba'ku were never violent or hostile toward the Son'a who rebelled--in fact, they welcomed some of them back with open arms once the hostilities were over. Ru'afo's sect tried to assume leadership for themselves, and were exiled for it. The Ba'ku were in the right, as far as that goes.

I believe I said before that it was a calculated risk on his part, undertaken mainly to get access to the planet without the Federation treating his fleet as hostile.

I doubt the Federation would have been inclined to grant Ru'afo anything at all, considering that the Son'a were a known Dominion ally, and he basically would've been asking the Federation to enable him in carrying out a personal vendetta. Their response more likely would have been, "Are you fucking kidding? No, you're not going to waltz through our space so you can kick your parents off their planet and use its magical radiation to heal yourselves. You helped the Dominion, for crying out loud. You'd probably just as soon slaughter them all. GTFO our territory." Instead, he approached the Federation with a deal that offered them something extremely tantalizing, and no doubt portrayed it as a very simple operation that could be completed quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

Again, an odd moral for the story: the Son'a were too willing to be cooperative, when really they should have taken care of the Baku themselves, giving Picard no reason to intervene.

If not for Data being there, the Enterprise never would've been involved, and yes, Ru'afo probably would've just exterminated the Ba'ku and either taken over the planet or used the collector. The Federation can hardly be blamed for not stopping an atrocity they didn't even know was going to happen.

well we disagree on how "pure" powers at war can afford to be. Ru'afo was offering Dougherty a potential key to victory at NO COST to the UFP. Drug-suppliers to the Dominion or not, Dougherty would have been a fool not to take the Son'a deal.

There is absolutely no evidence that the metaphasic radiation represented a significant strategic wartime advantage for the Federation.

It's actually unclear when the film takes place in relation to the Dominion War, though it is implied that it takes place after said conflict--in which case wartime strategy is not a concern. As an argument, I consider this a red herring.

And you saying there is "NO COST" doesn't mean there isn't one. There is absolutely a cost to the Ba'ku.

tighr · February 28 2013, 05:37 PM

Trekker4747 wrote:

I, for one, question how the Federation could lay claim on a planet they hadn't made official contact with and claimed it SO MUCH that they felt it was their "right" to relocate the population of the planet in order to "restore them to their natural evolution" when the people on the planet got there before there even WAS a Federation.

It seemed to me that Dougherty was lying to the Federation council. They're off on Earth or wherever, he's there making decisions, and providing them with bad information. He didn't seem like a very nice guy.

Hartzilla2007 · February 28 2013, 06:06 PM

Locutus of Bored wrote:

They would have had every right to be hostile in that situation but weren't, so they might have been open to the possibility of allowing elderly or sick Federation citizens to rehab on their world as long as they preserved the planetary environment, disarmed themselves, and lived a simple lifestyle without overrunning the planet with technology and people.

Actually I wonder if the Ba'ku would actually care what tech level the federation people living on the planet would have under an greement as long as they just didn't live in the valley.

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

It was indeed an internal dispute, however the Ba'ku were content to live their lives in seclusion without ever bothering anyone. The Son'a wanted to harvest the radiation for themselves and remain a spacebound civilization. If we take Federation involvement as a foregone conclusion, the known facts indicate that the Ba'ku were never violent or hostile toward the Son'a who rebelled--in fact, they welcomed some of them back with open arms once the hostilities were over. Ru'afo's sect tried to assume leadership for themselves, and were exiled for it. The Ba'ku were in the right, as far as that goes.

I believe I said before that it was a calculated risk on his part, undertaken mainly to get access to the planet without the Federation treating his fleet as hostile.

I doubt the Federation would have been inclined to grant Ru'afo anything at all, considering that the Son'a were a known Dominion ally, and he basically would've been asking the Federation to enable him in carrying out a personal vendetta. Their response more likely would have been, "Are you fucking kidding? No, you're not going to waltz through our space so you can kick your parents off their planet and use its magical radiation to heal yourselves. You helped the Dominion, for crying out loud. You'd probably just as soon slaughter them all. GTFO our territory." Instead, he approached the Federation with a deal that offered them something extremely tantalizing, and no doubt portrayed it as a very simple operation that could be completed quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

If not for Data being there, the Enterprise never would've been involved, and yes, Ru'afo probably would've just exterminated the Ba'ku and either taken over the planet or used the collector. The Federation can hardly be blamed for not stopping an atrocity they didn't even know was going to happen.

well we disagree on how "pure" powers at war can afford to be. Ru'afo was offering Dougherty a potential key to victory at NO COST to the UFP. Drug-suppliers to the Dominion or not, Dougherty would have been a fool not to take the Son'a deal.

There is absolutely no evidence that the metaphasic radiation represented a significant strategic wartime advantage for the Federation.

It's actually unclear when the film takes place in relation to the Dominion War, though it is implied that it takes place after said conflict--in which case wartime strategy is not a concern. As an argument, I consider this a red herring.

And you saying there is "NO COST" doesn't mean there isn't one. There is absolutely a cost to the Ba'ku.

Plus the radiation wouldn't be that much of a game changer since it doesn't do jack for phaser/energy weapon blasts, exploding consoles, exploding ships, other exploding things, or getting blown into space.

Not to mention the political issues over the federation's allies wanting a piece of this magic radition. becuase this sounded like a federtion only kind of thing from how Dougherty was talking about it.

tighr wrote:

Trekker4747 wrote:

I, for one, question how the Federation could lay claim on a planet they hadn't made official contact with and claimed it SO MUCH that they felt it was their "right" to relocate the population of the planet in order to "restore them to their natural evolution" when the people on the planet got there before there even WAS a Federation.

It seemed to me that Dougherty was lying to the Federation council. They're off on Earth or wherever, he's there making decisions, and providing them with bad information. He didn't seem like a very nice guy.

Not to mention how easiy it was for Ru'afo to talk him into attacking up the Enterprise.

sonak · February 28 2013, 06:31 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

It was indeed an internal dispute, however the Ba'ku were content to live their lives in seclusion without ever bothering anyone. The Son'a wanted to harvest the radiation for themselves and remain a spacebound civilization. If we take Federation involvement as a foregone conclusion, the known facts indicate that the Ba'ku were never violent or hostile toward the Son'a who rebelled--in fact, they welcomed some of them back with open arms once the hostilities were over. Ru'afo's sect tried to assume leadership for themselves, and were exiled for it. The Ba'ku were in the right, as far as that goes.

I believe I said before that it was a calculated risk on his part, undertaken mainly to get access to the planet without the Federation treating his fleet as hostile.

I doubt the Federation would have been inclined to grant Ru'afo anything at all, considering that the Son'a were a known Dominion ally, and he basically would've been asking the Federation to enable him in carrying out a personal vendetta. Their response more likely would have been, "Are you fucking kidding? No, you're not going to waltz through our space so you can kick your parents off their planet and use its magical radiation to heal yourselves. You helped the Dominion, for crying out loud. You'd probably just as soon slaughter them all. GTFO our territory." Instead, he approached the Federation with a deal that offered them something extremely tantalizing, and no doubt portrayed it as a very simple operation that could be completed quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

If not for Data being there, the Enterprise never would've been involved, and yes, Ru'afo probably would've just exterminated the Ba'ku and either taken over the planet or used the collector. The Federation can hardly be blamed for not stopping an atrocity they didn't even know was going to happen.

well we disagree on how "pure" powers at war can afford to be. Ru'afo was offering Dougherty a potential key to victory at NO COST to the UFP. Drug-suppliers to the Dominion or not, Dougherty would have been a fool not to take the Son'a deal.

There is absolutely no evidence that the metaphasic radiation represented a significant strategic wartime advantage for the Federation.

It's actually unclear when the film takes place in relation to the Dominion War, though it is implied that it takes place after said conflict--in which case wartime strategy is not a concern. As an argument, I consider this a red herring.

And you saying there is "NO COST" doesn't mean there isn't one. There is absolutely a cost to the Ba'ku.

seriously? You don't consider a resource that can double the life-span of soldiers or heal all kinds of battlefield injuries and conditions to be a "significant advantage?"

Remember that there was no indication at this point that the war would be a short one. I'm really amazed to continually read responses about how the particles wouldn't make a difference in war.

Robert Maxwell · February 28 2013, 06:46 PM

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

well we disagree on how "pure" powers at war can afford to be. Ru'afo was offering Dougherty a potential key to victory at NO COST to the UFP. Drug-suppliers to the Dominion or not, Dougherty would have been a fool not to take the Son'a deal.

There is absolutely no evidence that the metaphasic radiation represented a significant strategic wartime advantage for the Federation.

It's actually unclear when the film takes place in relation to the Dominion War, though it is implied that it takes place after said conflict--in which case wartime strategy is not a concern. As an argument, I consider this a red herring.

And you saying there is "NO COST" doesn't mean there isn't one. There is absolutely a cost to the Ba'ku.

seriously? You don't consider a resource that can double the life-span of soldiers or heal all kinds of battlefield injuries and conditions to be a "significant advantage?"

Remember that there was no indication at this point that the war would be a short one. I'm really amazed to continually read responses about how the particles wouldn't make a difference in war.

That the particles would be even slightly useful in a battlefield situation is a baseless assumption. What is said in the film is that the radiation "continually regenerates our genetic structure" or somesuch, which would make it useful for, yes, attacking cancers, and enhancing longevity. Healing wounds? That has nothing to do with genetic damage, so the particles would be useless for that.

sonak · February 28 2013, 07:16 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

There is absolutely no evidence that the metaphasic radiation represented a significant strategic wartime advantage for the Federation.

It's actually unclear when the film takes place in relation to the Dominion War, though it is implied that it takes place after said conflict--in which case wartime strategy is not a concern. As an argument, I consider this a red herring.

And you saying there is "NO COST" doesn't mean there isn't one. There is absolutely a cost to the Ba'ku.

seriously? You don't consider a resource that can double the life-span of soldiers or heal all kinds of battlefield injuries and conditions to be a "significant advantage?"

Remember that there was no indication at this point that the war would be a short one. I'm really amazed to continually read responses about how the particles wouldn't make a difference in war.

That the particles would be even slightly useful in a battlefield situation is a baseless assumption. What is said in the film is that the radiation "continually regenerates our genetic structure" or somesuch, which would make it useful for, yes, attacking cancers, and enhancing longevity. Healing wounds? That has nothing to do with genetic damage, so the particles would be useless for that.

OK, I guess you're right on that, I didn't remember that particular line. Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage. Just because the war ended up being a short one doesn't mean it was inevitably going to be so.

You REALLY don't think a resource like this would be useful in a war lasting many years?

Robert Maxwell · February 28 2013, 07:34 PM

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

seriously? You don't consider a resource that can double the life-span of soldiers or heal all kinds of battlefield injuries and conditions to be a "significant advantage?"

Remember that there was no indication at this point that the war would be a short one. I'm really amazed to continually read responses about how the particles wouldn't make a difference in war.

That the particles would be even slightly useful in a battlefield situation is a baseless assumption. What is said in the film is that the radiation "continually regenerates our genetic structure" or somesuch, which would make it useful for, yes, attacking cancers, and enhancing longevity. Healing wounds? That has nothing to do with genetic damage, so the particles would be useless for that.

OK, I guess you're right on that, I didn't remember that particular line. Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage. Just because the war ended up being a short one doesn't mean it was inevitably going to be so.

You REALLY don't think a resource like this would be useful in a war lasting many years?

For not appreciating accusations of neoconservatism, I find it interesting that you see the benefits of the particles mainly in terms of how they improve military capacity.

I'm sure a peaceful organization like the Federation is desperate to have soldiers with longer lifespans so they can, presumably, wage longer wars.

Hartzilla2007 · February 28 2013, 07:51 PM

sonak wrote:

Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage.

Not really when the federation is fighting a group that uses a race of mass produced clones that are really for combat in a matter of days and can build ships for them faster the feds can.

It would be an almost microscopic to the point of not really being that noticeable advanatge at best.

Robert Maxwell · February 28 2013, 07:53 PM

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

sonak wrote:

Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage.

Not really when the federation is fighting a group that uses a race of mass produced clones that are really for combat in a matter of days and can build ships for them faster the feds can.

It would be an almost microscopic to the point of not really being that noticeable advanatge at best.

That's a great point I hadn't thought of, but you're right. The Dominion can manufacture endless waves of troops on demand. The Federation would never be able to compete if we're talking about a war of attrition, which is what sonak is suggesting.

Hartzilla2007 · February 28 2013, 08:04 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

sonak wrote:

Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage.

Not really when the federation is fighting a group that uses a race of mass produced clones that are really for combat in a matter of days and can build ships for them faster the feds can.

It would be an almost microscopic to the point of not really being that noticeable advanatge at best.

That's a great point I hadn't thought of, but you're right. The Dominion can manufacture endless waves of troops on demand. The Federation would never be able to compete if we're talking about a war of attrition, which is what sonak is suggesting.

Which is why I'm wondering just how the particles are supposed to be this magic bullet that will help the Federation win the war.

sonak · February 28 2013, 10:55 PM

Robert Maxwell wrote:

sonak wrote:

Robert Maxwell wrote:

That the particles would be even slightly useful in a battlefield situation is a baseless assumption. What is said in the film is that the radiation "continually regenerates our genetic structure" or somesuch, which would make it useful for, yes, attacking cancers, and enhancing longevity. Healing wounds? That has nothing to do with genetic damage, so the particles would be useless for that.

OK, I guess you're right on that, I didn't remember that particular line. Still, doubling the life-span of your soldiers and adding to the pool of those who can serve by curing genetic problems and therefore greatly increasing the number of those available to serve in combat is still a huge advantage. Just because the war ended up being a short one doesn't mean it was inevitably going to be so.

You REALLY don't think a resource like this would be useful in a war lasting many years?

For not appreciating accusations of neoconservatism, I find it interesting that you see the benefits of the particles mainly in terms of how they improve military capacity.

I'm sure a peaceful organization like the Federation is desperate to have soldiers with longer lifespans so they can, presumably, wage longer wars.

I'm bringing this up because the events of the movie take place during a war, so of course the military application of it is relevant.

February 28 2013, 05:22 PM	#108
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Star Trek: INS- Son'a/Dominion Question I, for one, question how the Federation could lay claim on a planet they hadn't made official contact with and claimed it SO MUCH that they felt it was their "right" to relocate the population of the planet in order to "restore them to their natural evolution" when the people on the planet got there before there even WAS a Federation. It seemed like a convenient re-interpretation of their rules and something Roddenberry always thought humans had "evolved past" by the 24th century so everything that happens in the movie, as far as the Federation is concerned, is against the very nature of the universe. __________________ Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.

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