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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 4 2013, 07:17 AM   #1981
Harvey
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Seems in line with everything that I've seen about HTV's work on this project. In other words, perfectly adequate, but far from the exceptional work of CBS Digital on the first season.
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Old February 4 2013, 12:15 PM   #1982
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Seems a pretty strong reaction to slightly different shots. Really, saying this isn't the "original" footage, wanting to contact people involved in the show and this project to ask them questions about these very slightly different shots?
You're seeing what you want to see in my post. I'm not enraged or demanding a recall. I am simply curious about the reasons behind changing the shots. Accident or intentional?

Saying it isn't the 'original' footage is totally accurate in respect to recreating the show as originally aired....which HTV trumpeted pretty loudly. I recall Doug Drexler being pretty when CBS-D used the digital Enterprise warping in shot for "The Inner Light", for whatever reason, so there must have been some cause for not using the originally aired take. I'm simply curious why.

I kind of find it amusing how much flack CBS-D got for the mistakes in Season 1. People seemed a lot more irate over a missing phaser shot, a missing light pass on the starbase, or the sound issues than they have over the far wider range of issues with Season 2. The more I see of Season 2 the happier I am that I skipped buying it.

If the automated software system that HTV used to find exact matches for original shots chose these shots over the originals, they may want to reconsider letting a human do the work. lol

Seems in line with everything that I've seen about HTV's work on this project. In other words, perfectly adequate, but far from the exceptional work of CBS Digital on the first season.
You're far more kind in your assessment than I.

On a scale of 1 to 10 I would rate CBS-D's work an 8 and HTV's a 3 overall. There is 'some' nice work in there, but overall it's sloppy. Different interpretations of what is adequate, but for me the work would have to be around a 5 to be adequate.

Last edited by NewHorizon; February 4 2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old February 5 2013, 01:59 AM   #1983
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Watching Trekcore's "SD to HD" videos, and it's definitely obvious that HTV did the bare minimum with the effects.

Compared to the dramatic improvement in quality in the season one effects shots (from cheap looking video to stunning movie quality), in season two the difference is about as subtle as can be.
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Old February 5 2013, 07:25 PM   #1984
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Tosk wrote: View Post
Who exactly are you trying to imitate? No one has reacted with any alarm at all in this thread, so I'm not sure what the point of your sarcastic rant is.
Ahem:

That is interesting...to say the least. I wonder if we could get a straight answer on that from anyone? HTV apparently used some state of the art identification software to compare the original footage and match it automatically.

From what I recall, we've been told all of the original footage for Season 2 was found, minus a few seconds...isn't that right?

Alternate takes wouldn't qualify as having found the 'original' footage from the episode though.

So I'm curious...mistake or intentional. Perhaps we can ask Mike Okuda or Robert Meyer Burnett? They seem pretty open about this stuff.
Seems a pretty strong reaction to slightly different shots. Really, saying this isn't the "original" footage, wanting to contact people involved in the show and this project to ask them questions about these very slightly different shots?
Personally I think you're the one overreacting here.

New Horizon's post just came across as someone who is genuinly curious why different shots were used instead of the original shots. We often get posts from people who worked on Trek so I don't think it's an unreasonable request to ask them the question. I'm curious to know why this was done too. Does that mean I'm overreacting?
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Old February 5 2013, 09:43 PM   #1985
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

They're minutely different shots. I don't see why one would have any question over why they were used over the "original" none the less contact busy people to ask them why in the BD version Picard's standing there in a slightly different manner looking at a Borg with his head turned in a slightly different way. That's pretty much the very definition of the detail-obsessed super fan that gets made fun of in comedy against Star Trek fans.

It'd be one thing if they were radically different scenes in the episode that caused real, meaningful, changes to the story. But it's not. It's a slightly different take that ends in mattering almost not at all.

But, go ahead, eMail the Okudas about it as pester them on why these slightly different takes were used. I'm sure they have time or even the realization that such stark, series-destroying, changes were made to find the answers.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:26 PM   #1986
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

You are the only one implying that we think it is a "stark, series-destroying change". I'm just curious why it was done. I guess the Okudas better tee-up that restraining order.
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Old February 5 2013, 11:51 PM   #1987
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I think it's more of a point of interest as in "Wow, that's interesting that they used a different shot than previously, I wonder why they made that design choice." I view the inquiry as looking for an interesting behind the scenes story
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Old February 6 2013, 01:05 AM   #1988
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

trekker670 wrote: View Post
I think it's more of a point of interest as in "Wow, that's interesting that they used a different shot than previously, I wonder why they made that design choice." I view the inquiry as looking for an interesting behind the scenes story
Exactly. And I'm sure when they get to it, Ex Astris Scientia will have occasion to ask the Okudas why these shots were substituted in their observations for "Q Who?" There's no harm in contacting EAS to double-check that they'll be covering it.
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Old February 6 2013, 04:08 AM   #1989
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
That's pretty much the very definition of the detail-obsessed super fan that gets made fun of in comedy against Star Trek fans.
You're one of us too; you wouldn't be so upset and thinking other people are equally upset about all of this if you weren't. Resistance is indeed futile.
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Old February 6 2013, 01:52 PM   #1990
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
...or even the realization that such stark, series-destroying, changes were made to find the answers.
Dude, relax. I never said anything about series-destroying changes. I'm just curious. The Okudas and RMB have been very open to questions and communication on their twitter accounts. If they don't have time or don't care to answer, they can ignore the question. I'm not repeatedly calling their home in the middle of the night or anything.
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Old February 7 2013, 03:00 AM   #1991
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Welcome to the concept of a "straw man".

To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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Old February 10 2013, 03:03 PM   #1992
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

When I wrote the "Q Who" observations article for EAS some weeks ago, I only noticed that the reaction shot of the Borg in main engineering was different and covered that shot in the upcoming article. I didn't notice all the other new shots but I will update the article accordingly and give you credit, Tosk.

I contacted Mike about this and he acknowledged the difference but didn't say anything else.

I assumed it had something to do with the software they used to identify the correct film elements. I cannot think of another reason why so many shots in a single scene are different.

Should anyone find more cases of different takes/shots or any other things that would be of interest for the observations articles at EAS, please let me know and we will include the observation and give you credit for it.

Jörg
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Old February 21 2013, 08:42 PM   #1993
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Ultimately HTV's work is still better than the SD version, when I actually watch it, if I don't look for problems I have no issues enjoying it...same thing on the big screen, Q Who looked great in the movie theater. Admittedly, CBS Digital's work is better, as in comparison shots of the Borg Cube but I tend to keep my picture contrasty anyway and don't notice some of the issues.

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Old February 28 2013, 03:26 AM   #1994
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Finally saw Q-Who

If the FX team argued they spent most of their time on this episode and neglected a few others, I'd believe them as I actually thought they did a good job on this one.

They even fixed stuff like ensuring the charging "pulse" before the phasers fired was on every phaser shot, which correct me if I'm wrong doesn't really happen in the original ep.

Explosions when the Enterprise unleashes its Firepower on the cube (at last!) are nicely tooled up too, this time you finally get the impression they're doing some damage.
Great improving of the Borg transporter and the way the defeated borg kinda dissolved was a neat touch too.

Aside from the re-mastering, seeing this ep again after all this time made me realised just how padded it was....
It's a lot talkier than I remember, particularly the start when you have Ensign Sonia Gomez throwing her hot chocolate all over Picard, Picard going missing and then Q and Guinan coming to a head all before we get anywhere near the Borg....

Also it may be an 80s thing but I can't get over the Enterprise suffering serious damage from being carved up by the Borg, the Enterprise being fortunate enough to shoot it into submission then Picard standing there and ordering everyone into a conference.
Either keep firing or run, don't just sit about in the same location talking about what you're gonna do, sheesh.
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Old February 28 2013, 04:12 PM   #1995
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Re: Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Either keep firing or run, don't just sit about in the same location talking about what you're gonna do, sheesh.
I think the justification is that Picard feels the need to show Q that they're ready for anything. It does kill the tension completely, though, and it's a pretty thin rationalisation. It's clear almost from the start that the Enterprise is completely outgunned and even if Picard is trying to show off, surely someone else would at least suggest just high-tailing it.
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