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Old January 29 2013, 06:20 AM   #16
NeedsOfTheMany
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

It was a nice thumbs up after the middle finger that was that episode.
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Old January 29 2013, 03:12 PM   #17
Mach5
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
but not quite as heinous as many believe.
You might wanna rephrase this.
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Old February 28 2013, 03:41 AM   #18
Dick_Valentine
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

Needed more warping into the distance.

And actually seeing Archer make the famous speech in the first place would've been nice.
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Old March 14 2013, 03:07 AM   #19
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Needed more warping into the distance.

And actually seeing Archer make the famous speech in the first place would've been nice.

This was what I was going to say. It would have been really nice if they allowed him to give the actual speech.

What ruined this episode was that the show was canceled. This was the real tragedy. And as a result they had to cram a bunch of stuff in there, very contrived.

I never completely understood all the animosity of bringing in TNG characters (including earlier episodes with Brent Spiner). I thought it added to the show, not took away from it.

Most people I know outside of the nets that like star trek in varying degrees do not like ENT. They think it is ignorable, unimportant, poorly cast, poorly written, poorly directed, and just a joke. I feel TATV helps give it's place in Star Trek.

On this note, I am at least glad they had the commen sense and courtesy to the fans to actually wrap it up. I was a huge fanboy of Terminator scc and still want to face slap Josh Friedman for having such a massive cliffhanger at teh end (strong evidence suggests that he knew there was at least a chance that the show would not get renewed). In fact, I have now noticed there have been a number of sci fi shows over the last 10 years that have been canceled after massive cliffhangers. Imagine Voyagers fans if the show was canceled after season 3?! nerd riots.

At least ENT had the decency to give us an actual ending. And I think tying together all the Enterprise captains was excellent and no disrespect to DS9 or Voyager (as those shows were not the voyages of the starship Enterprise).
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Old March 14 2013, 07:30 AM   #20
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

I don't care about an "actual ending". I care about a good story. Demons/Terra Prime was a great double episode. TATV was a piece of clapped together crap. Sticking Mr. Smarmy in there and making the supposed ENT finale his story just ground that crap in deeper.
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Old March 18 2013, 12:26 PM   #21
Delta Vega
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

Every time I see the episode it makes me sad because you know that this is it, there will be no more.

They should hvae ended on the Archer/T`Pol embrace or even have let Archer relay the speech, what a legacy that could have been.

As for the whole Holosuite/Riker/Troi/Chef ???? thing, it was an insult to the cast and crew of Enterprise to see the way they were used in what was known to be the finale, a franchise finale.

I sincerely hope that somewhere, sometime in the near future, that writers and Star Trek visionaries can get together and give us more of this crew and timeline.
They deserved better after two magnificent series, Three and Four.
The scene with the three ships at the end was clever and sad, and also a complete kick in the arse to devoted fans of the Enterprise franchise.
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Old March 19 2013, 06:09 AM   #22
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

The thing that is so frustrating about the episode, is that at its very outline level, the idea is really cool. People from the future use a historic lesson from Enterprise.

And certainly there are bits and pieces that do work, but on the whole its a true failure.

Ideally I would have dropped things like Riker interacting with the crew (I really disliked that aspect), I would have changed the whole subplot leading to Trip's death. I don't mind Trip dying, and I don't mind Trip dying from something rather mundane (that's actually something we should see happen on Trek shows). I would have expanded the starting of the federation bit (seriously) and I would have actually had the crew show some damn sadness that a friend just died (seriously what the hell was that).

And while I loved, loved seeing HD level Pegasus effects, I think I might have chosen not to use a known "Trek" character. Kind of like how in Visitor the unknown character who interviews Jake was really, really effective. I think picking someone, perhaps getting ready to start a tour of duty or something on the Enterprise might actually be more effective.

I also think to hold that level of detail, it really needed two hours.

Now would you want to spend two hours of Enterprise finally season on something that includes stuff in the future is a whole nother issue.

Not that season 4 really had much focus at all to it. One of the reasons as a whole I am not that happy with season 4 is that it truly doesn't feel like a cohesive season. I like certain stories (some a hell of a lot), but it felt to me like the writers instead of plotting out a real arc, and pacing out the season, just said ok, we have a year lets just throw in all the stories we wanted to tell. Generally that isn't good storytelling.
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Old March 19 2013, 11:45 AM   #23
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

I really don't get why Archer starting the Federation with a big speech was such a big deal in 2161 when Archer already started the Federation with a big speech at the end of "Terra Prime" in 2154.
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Old March 19 2013, 01:54 PM   #24
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

mswood wrote: View Post
The thing that is so frustrating about the episode, is that at its very outline level, the idea is really cool. People from the future use a historic lesson from Enterprise.

And certainly there are bits and pieces that do work, but on the whole its a true failure.

Ideally I would have dropped things like Riker interacting with the crew (I really disliked that aspect), I would have changed the whole subplot leading to Trip's death. I don't mind Trip dying, and I don't mind Trip dying from something rather mundane (that's actually something we should see happen on Trek shows). I would have expanded the starting of the federation bit (seriously) and I would have actually had the crew show some damn sadness that a friend just died (seriously what the hell was that).

And while I loved, loved seeing HD level Pegasus effects, I think I might have chosen not to use a known "Trek" character. Kind of like how in Visitor the unknown character who interviews Jake was really, really effective. I think picking someone, perhaps getting ready to start a tour of duty or something on the Enterprise might actually be more effective.

I also think to hold that level of detail, it really needed two hours.

Now would you want to spend two hours of Enterprise finally season on something that includes stuff in the future is a whole nother issue.

Not that season 4 really had much focus at all to it. One of the reasons as a whole I am not that happy with season 4 is that it truly doesn't feel like a cohesive season. I like certain stories (some a hell of a lot), but it felt to me like the writers instead of plotting out a real arc, and pacing out the season, just said ok, we have a year lets just throw in all the stories we wanted to tell. Generally that isn't good storytelling.
I agree with a lot of this. I also don't mind Tucker's death, or that it's essentially unnecessary. Shit happens. And space travel is (hell, Q said this) dangerous. While there had been casualties in ENT (and they were handled a lot more effectively than in, say, TOS), it really brings it home when it's a main character. In a way, that's a bit like the M*A*S*H finale, when Charles and Hawkeye go a bit loopy, and Mulcahy becomes deafened. They had been unscathed characters, and they shouldn't have been. I am all for sullying the characters, and for showing a reaction to that. 'Cause we barely even got T'Pol reacting. Even as a Vulcan, she had a connection to him and that should have been explored, that the connection was suddenly, tragically, cut.

The Riker framing is weird and all it did was make me think of how the actors had aged. An unknown, or even a prequel character, that would have made more sense. A young redheaded woman watches a holographic representation of the Enterprise because she is about to head into space and is a bit concerned that it's all too much, and it ends up being Beverly Howard. Or a young man thinks everyone in space has to be perfect all the time, watches a holographic representation and he turns out to be Jake Sisko.

Or, the people who are watching aren't human at all. What if a Xindi Reptilian - say, a guy with an Initiation Medal that he's turning over in his claws nervously - is about to board the Enterprise-J for the first time, and worries about being accepted. He watches a holographic representation and realizes that people might make mistakes and might even do damage, but they mean well, and we've got to take risks. And then Daniels appears and asks him, "Hey, Dolim, buddy, can I borrow your medal for a second? I gotta prove a point. I'll bring it right back, I swear."
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Old March 20 2013, 11:26 AM   #25
Delta Vega
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

[QUOTE=King Daniel;7819603]I really don't get why Archer starting the Federation with a big speech was such a big deal in 2161 when Archer already started the Federation with a big speech at the end of "Terra Prime" in 2154.[/QUOTE]

He did indeed
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Old March 21 2013, 12:09 AM   #26
Chrisisall
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
That scene is wonderful - love it!
Me too, as said on page one...shivers.
As for the episode itself, it's certainly fairly weak
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Old March 21 2013, 12:41 AM   #27
DS9forever
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

I get that the final scene was all about the three Enterprises, but DS9 and Voyager are as much about Star Trek as TNG and Enterprise are.
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Old March 21 2013, 12:54 AM   #28
Chrisisall
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

DS9forever wrote: View Post
I get that the final scene was all about the three Enterprises, but DS9 and Voyager are as much about Star Trek as TNG and Enterprise are.
Yes, but neither features a ship named 'Enterprise' so I am fine with that last little bit we got.
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Old March 23 2013, 09:29 PM   #29
TheRoyalFamily
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

I thought that scene was a bit corny myself. The best parts of the episode (really the only good parts) were the HD beauty shots of the EntD. I never really liked the Galaxy Class aesthetically before I saw this episode.
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Old March 25 2013, 03:48 AM   #30
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: Did everyone love the three Enterprises scene in TATV?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
DS9forever wrote: View Post
I get that the final scene was all about the three Enterprises, but DS9 and Voyager are as much about Star Trek as TNG and Enterprise are.
Yes, but neither features a ship named 'Enterprise' so I am fine with that last little bit we got.
Exactly!

What was the name of the show again?

Not "Enterprisevoyagerds9".
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