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Old February 27 2013, 08:00 PM   #1276
Rhaven
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Tom wrote: View Post
Why didn't anyone tell Andrea what the Governor did to Maggie? It may have made her mind up about the Governor. The communication is horrible in the show.

Andrea may not have listened, but she did take a knife out as if to kill the Gov....that she listen about. Too bad she chickened out though.
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Old February 27 2013, 08:18 PM   #1277
Tom Hendricks
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Tom Hendricks wrote: View Post
Merle is the classic example of The Scorpion and the Frog. A scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion explains that this is simply its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the view that the behaviour of some creatures, or of some people, is irrepressible, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences.

Commander Chakotay says it was a fox:

Voyager episode - Scorpion
A scorpion was wandering along the bank of the river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I did that, we'd both drown."
So the fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As the poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
It's a very common parable, even Aesop wrote one called the Farmer and the Viper/Serpent.
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Old February 27 2013, 09:28 PM   #1278
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Tom wrote: View Post
Why didn't anyone tell Andrea what the Governor did to Maggie? It may have made her mind up about the Governor. The communication is horrible in the show.
There's really no excuse for anyone not stepping up to tell Andrea all they know. But, the plot needs to keep Andrea on the governor's side (or let the audience believe that) long enough for the inevitable war between Woodbury and the prison where she will be forced to make a stand.
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Old February 27 2013, 10:41 PM   #1279
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Pingfah wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Merle is a coward, because he does what is easy, not what is right, or even smart.
Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
You can be physically brave and still be a moral coward.
Right & Right, & that's what he is
But isn't moral cowardice sacrificing your values because you don't have the courage to defend them?

That's not what Merle is, he doesn't have those values to start with, as far as I can tell he doesn't really care about other people or what is "right" at all.
Actually, I'm not entirely sure how the phrase is defined, but by how you've defined it, then you have a point. My only point is that Merle is not a just or righteous man, & I really have a hard time seeing him ever becoming one, unless it was maybe a sacrifice to save Daryl

Would he die for Daryl? Maybe, but there isn't one other person alive he'd ever bother to stick his neck out for, lend aid to, or even abstain from victimizing. Ultimately, no one is safe around him, because he is untrustworthy & malicious, & I call him cowardly because of his recent actions

1. He told the Governor that the prison was unclaimable, likely because he didn't want to risk having to clear it out for the community

2. He would not risk going after Michonne, because he knew he was at a disadvantage against her, even with the last man still on his team. He would rather murder that man than face her

3. He would not tell the Governor that he didn't kill Michonne, because he either feared the repercussion or feared he'd be sent back to find her, or both

4. His immediate reaction to finding Daryl was to try undermining his relationship with the group because he fears their opinions have more value to Daryl than his now

5. He would rather return to a group of people who he tried to kill or left him for dead, than face survival without Daryl, not because of his relationship with Daryl, but because Daryl is the only person left who he can depend on

6. Most importantly, he left an abusive father behind & never attempted to do anything to prevent the same abuse happening to his little brother. He'd rather serve in the military than risk dealing with that

Merle is a textbook coward hiding behind a rugged exterior, & a ruthless demeanor

Daryl: "I may be the one walking away, but you're the one leaving... again"
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Old February 27 2013, 11:35 PM   #1280
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Pingfah wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
Right & Right, & that's what he is
But isn't moral cowardice sacrificing your values because you don't have the courage to defend them?

That's not what Merle is, he doesn't have those values to start with, as far as I can tell he doesn't really care about other people or what is "right" at all.
Actually, I'm not entirely sure how the phrase is defined, but by how you've defined it, then you have a point. My only point is that Merle is not a just or righteous man, & I really have a hard time seeing him ever becoming one, unless it was maybe a sacrifice to save Daryl
All true, but people can grow. Merle might not ever become a just and righteous man, but it's still possible for him to learn a few things.

It will be interesting to see if he goes that route, or if he remains in "scorpion" mode. Either is possible.
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Old February 27 2013, 11:50 PM   #1281
A beaker full of death
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

I find it hard not to like Merle.

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but it seems to me Rick has pretty much disqualified himself from leadership this entire season. Achilles may have sulked in his tent, but this guy is basically awol indulging his fantasies when his team needs him most, and then he goes and has a rolling-on-the-floor meltdown in front of everyone (after his son had to do the real dirty work). Command 101: don't let your troops perceive you as compromised. This guy has been nothing but. He should learn a lesson from his son and man up.
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Old February 27 2013, 11:52 PM   #1282
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I find it hard not to like Merle.
Shocking, given your avatar.

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Old February 28 2013, 12:10 AM   #1283
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

If you have something to say, say it.
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Old February 28 2013, 12:18 AM   #1284
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
If you have something to say, say it.
Actually, let's not. There is no need to further discuss this in thread. You can take it up with the admins.

Moving on.....
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Old February 28 2013, 12:21 AM   #1285
Locutus of Bored
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

It was pretty self-explanatory I thought, but if you insist... It doesn't come as much of a shock that a guy who picks the most biased depiction of a dead black teenager killed in a tragic incident possible would find the character of Merle likeable.

I don't care what your opinion on Zimmerman's guilt or innocence is, it shows a complete lack of tact and decency to use that as your avatar. Regardless of your opinion about Trayvon Martin and his role in the incident, a teenage kid is dead. Have some fucking respect and don't trivialize it like that.

ETA: Sorry, Neroon, I was typing this up before you posted. I won't say anything else.
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Old February 28 2013, 12:53 AM   #1286
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

throwback wrote: View Post
I wouldn't call Merle a coward. He did serve in the military prior to the plaque.
History has shown that simply having a military record does not automatically absolve one from rightly being called "coward" (among other things) upon committing heinous acts. Although Merle has sided with his brother's group for now, he has his own history of atrocities. It should only be a matter of time before Merle's true nature resurfaces and he'll have to be put down like a rabid dog.
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Old February 28 2013, 02:58 AM   #1287
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

Caligula wrote: View Post

History has shown that simply having a military record does not automatically absolve one from rightly being called "coward" (among other things) upon committing heinous acts.
Well said. the military is home to many personalities...among them the greedy, cowardly, evil, violent and psychotic.

Although Merle has sided with his brother's group for now, he has his own history of atrocities. It should only be a matter of time before Merle's true nature resurfaces and he'll have to be put down like a rabid dog.
He's still a racist, and for that reason alone, no one in the group should close their eyes around him, as he already sees a large part of humanity as expendable, or something to disrespect--deadly in a world overrun by zombies.
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Old February 28 2013, 03:57 AM   #1288
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

When I learned that Merle had read the Bible in Woodbury, I recalled the movie "A Clockwork Orange". In that film, Alex is reading the Bible in the prison. To people who see him reading that book, they might think that he is taking the first steps towards imitating Christ. However, in an internal monologue and vision, the audience learns that Alex sees himself as a Roman soldier flogging Christ as he carries the cross.

I think that people who live in the apocalypse must have some degree of courage. I believe that Merle does have courage.

Here is the Wikipedia article on courage:
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage
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Old February 28 2013, 04:48 AM   #1289
Caligula
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

throwback wrote: View Post
When I learned that Merle had read the Bible in Woodbury, I recalled the movie "A Clockwork Orange". In that film, Alex is reading the Bible in the prison. To people who see him reading that book, they might think that he is taking the first steps towards imitating Christ. However, in an internal monologue and vision, the audience learns that Alex sees himself as a Roman soldier flogging Christ as he carries the cross.
Assuming that this was the suggestion you were making, I don't think Alex can be considered a great example of a courageous individual, at least not the last time I watched the movie/read the book.

throwback wrote: View Post
I think that people who live in the apocalypse must have some degree of courage.
As far as the show has demonstrated, those who lack courage either give up entirely, try to kill their best friend, or fail to kill the enemy whose bed they've been sharing.
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Old February 28 2013, 03:12 PM   #1290
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 3

On the way to work this morning I stopped at the gas station and I saw a dog sitting in a pickup truck next to me. I'm not a pet owner so it hadn't occured to me until seeing the dog and rewatching last week's episode last night

But there is a complete lack of animals on the show - other than the walkers eating a stray deer. Not even in Woodbury are there pets. What happened to all of the dogs and cats? Did the zombies eat all of them?

Also seeing the dog this morning it occured to me that trained attack dogs might be a great defense against the zombies
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