So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

[bullethead]

Lance wrote:

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The trouble with people trying to compare Voyager with DS9 is that they're fundamentally different types of show. You can't really compare them. DS9 was sold directly into syndication (just like TNG) whereas Voyager was a network show. Voyager was hamstrung by too many network directives about what it can and can't be, where DS9 had more freedom to just say "fuck it, let's just blow up some shit!" (that's an actual Ron Moore quote btw). Truth is there were a whole shitload more Men In Suits™ issuing disapproving memos to the Voyager producers every day than there were to the DS9 guys on the other side of the Paramount lot. Rick Berman would turn up at his office every day and open his inbox and just have to deal with dozens of people saying "our audience research suggests Voyager would be more popular if the cast wore funny hats -- can we have an episode where Janeway finds a planet of hats?", and all his dreams about being in charge of something edgy would just melt. The setup was there in the series bible for a really terrific series, and yes, the character dynamic was excellent on paper. But Voyager was fighting a losing battle from the start. Virtually from the pilot episode, those memos started coming in: "Great television shows always have a reset button! Can't you guys have a reset button on your ship?".

Ironically, what would have really helped Voyager would have been to have a format more like what we got in years three and four of Enterprise: a series of three-to-four part storylines (mini-arcs) that would have given the characters and situations some extra room to breathe, instead of having to have everything wrapped up in 60 mins including commercials. I say 'ironically' because Enterprise was a network show too, but the pervailing feeling about what was popular in tv shows had changed alot since Voyager was on, and suddenly the very same ominous Men In Suits™ who had asked for Planet Of The Funny Hats stories were all lining up at Berman's office door to say how great it would be to have ongoing story arcs and character conflict. Hence the temporal cold war.

Actually, Braga has publicly stated that the reason behind the Temporal Cols War was UPN wanted something set further in the future than DS9 was, while the creative staff wanted a prequel, so the writers shoved in the TCW into the show to satisfy the execs. I think the shift to arcs happened because the show was tanking in the ratings and the suits were desperate to get ratings, so they let the writers out of the box a little.

[Lance]

bullethead wrote:

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Braga has publicly stated that the reason behind the Temporal Cols War was UPN wanted something set further in the future than DS9 was, while the creative staff wanted a prequel, so the writers shoved in the TCW into the show to satisfy the execs. I think the shift to arcs happened because the show was tanking in the ratings and the suits were desperate to get ratings, so they let the writers out of the box a little.

Actually, if that's true, then I think the execs made the right call. It should have been another far-flung future series. The prequel idea was a complete hash. The TCW doesn't fit in with Enterprise as a series at all, but as it's own show it would have had room to breathe a bit.

Studio Execs 1, Brannon Braga zilch.

[exodus]

Lance wrote:

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The trouble with people trying to compare Voyager with DS9 is that they're fundamentally different types of show. You can't really compare them. DS9 was sold directly into syndication (just like TNG) whereas Voyager was a network show. Voyager was hamstrung by too many network directives about what it can and can't be, where DS9 had more freedom to just say "fuck it, let's just blow up some shit!" (that's an actual Ron Moore quote btw). Truth is there were a whole shitload more Men In Suits™ issuing disapproving memos to the Voyager producers every day than there were to the DS9 guys on the other side of the Paramount lot. Rick Berman would turn up at his office every day and open his inbox and just have to deal with dozens of people saying "our audience research suggests Voyager would be more popular if the cast wore funny hats -- can we have an episode where Janeway finds a planet of hats?", and all his dreams about being in charge of something edgy would just melt. The setup was there in the series bible for a really terrific series, and yes, the character dynamic was excellent on paper. But Voyager was fighting a losing battle from the start. Virtually from the pilot episode, those memos started coming in: "Great television shows always have a reset button! Can't you guys have a reset button on your ship?".

Ironically, what would have really helped Voyager would have been to have a format more like what we got in years three and four of Enterprise: a series of three-to-four part storylines (mini-arcs) that would have given the characters and situations some extra room to breathe, instead of having to have everything wrapped up in 60 mins including commercials. I say 'ironically' because Enterprise was a network show too, but the pervailing feeling about what was popular in tv shows had changed alot since Voyager was on, and suddenly the very same ominous Men In Suits™ who had asked for Planet Of The Funny Hats stories were all lining up at Berman's office door to say how great it would be to have ongoing story arcs and character conflict. Hence the temporal cold war.

100% on point!

[Anwar]

Relayer1 wrote:

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Not employing Kate Mulgrew or Tim Russ would have helped too...

You spelled "Robert Beltran" and "Garrett Wang" wrong.

[Relayer1]

Anwar wrote:

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You spelled "Robert Beltran" and "Garrett Wang" wrong.

[feek61]

I noticed that most of the episodes centered on the secondary characters. There were a lot of story's about Nelix, Kes, Paris, Kim, etc., but not that many on Janeway, Chakoty (sp?). Thank God the doctor was interesting!

[balticballet]

Neelix is the most annoying to me!

[Sadara]

teacake wrote:

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He's not particularly original, though he is refreshing as a Vulcan who is not tormented with angst from being either half human or deeply flawed. He's an older mainstream Vulcan with hobbies (orchid growing), a family back in the Alpha quadrant he misses, a long term friendship in Janeway and some comfort zone challenges in the form of Neelix. He's one of the least dysfunctional Vulcans we see in Trek and a huge asset to the crew.

What did you see that was "bad"?

Sorry, I'm late coming into this thread, but I would like to agree that Tuvok is a normal Vulcan and refreshingly so. We were chatting in the DS9 forum about Captain Solok and TNG and DS9 saw some seriously off their rocker Vulcans. It's nice to see Tuvok just be a normal Vulcan as opposed to a murderous, rascist, Bendii Syndrome affected Vulcan.

[Shazam!]

I'd have killed them all off after a season and then have some lower decks characters promoted to bridge officers.

It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.

[Sadara]

Shazam! wrote:

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I'd have killed them all off after a season and then have some lower decks characters promoted to bridge officers.

It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.

Captain Vorik would be awesome.

[hux]

Shazam! wrote:

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It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.

But isn't that exactly what we did see

[Relayer1]

hux wrote:

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But isn't that exactly what we did see

It seemed more like deeply inexperienced people charged with WRITING Voyager...

[Shazam!]

hux wrote:

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But isn't that exactly what we did see

No, everyone seemed to manage just fine.

[Anwar]

Why wouldn't they? Their situation wasn't unique, it happened to Kirk and Picard too.

[Guy Gardener]

And Professor Robinson & Dr. Smith too.