RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,774
Posts: 5,216,907
Members: 24,218
Currently online: 670
Newest member: momogila

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 26 2013, 03:26 PM   #16
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2013, 06:52 PM   #17
Jose Tyler
Lieutenant Commander
 
Jose Tyler's Avatar
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Timo wrote: View Post
So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi
Maybe it can be tied to which operating authority the division is working under for that specific mission; the emblems we are used to seeing are worn when Starfleet Command is calling the shots, but something different is worn when the ship is flying under the UESPA flag, or vice versa.

For TLOZ, maybe everytime Scotty is working on the equipment transfer, it fall under the UESPA Quartermaster Corp, and a different symbol is used...
__________________
Are you of the body?
Jose Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2013, 07:05 PM   #18
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2013, 07:43 PM   #19
Jose Tyler
Lieutenant Commander
 
Jose Tyler's Avatar
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Pavonis wrote: View Post
And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.
Anything is plausible in a big enough bureaucracy. Assuming the uninforms are fabricated/replicated in some fashion, the ship’s computer would know what duty you were assigned to that shift, so it could easily zap a circle or a squiggle based on your orders. It is no more implausible than other things we’ve seen on TOS.
__________________
Are you of the body?

Last edited by Jose Tyler; February 26 2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: typo...
Jose Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2013, 08:44 PM   #20
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Delta Vega
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Jose Tyler wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.
Anything is plausible in a big enough bureaucracy. Assuming the uninforms are fabricated/replicated in some fashion, the ship’s computer would know what duty you were assigned to that shift, so it could easily zap a circle or a squiggle based on your orders. It is no more implausible than other things we’ve seen on TOS.
Interesting theory.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 03:13 AM   #21
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

I actually think Franz Joseph, using his powers of inference, pretty much nailed it. The seamstresses at night occasionally did not. Pretend the ship's laundry or clothes reclamation unit messed up occasionally.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 04:26 AM   #22
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

With BK613's find, we're up to 4 variations of the delta patches

1. Star
2. Circular
3. Spiral
4. Rectangle with open right side

With these known parameters:
1. variations only exist on the delta patch,
2. not everyone wears the delta patch - some use a different design that doesn't have room for same variations
3. the delta patch is seen mixed in on other ships that might have different patches
4. character x can switch back and forth between delta patch variations

Then I guess that it is just a Starfleet patch. The variation is purely cosmetic. Or it might be a shift patch. It could indicate which of the three shifts the character is currently assigned to. But that wouldn't account for the other patches that don't have room for variations.

Timo wrote: View Post
So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 12:20 PM   #23
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Pavonis wrote: View Post
And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.
Hmm...I like that. Since Scotty obviously starts to show interest in female biology in "The Lights of Zetar" his department accordingly changes from "engineering" to "science" ... (Seriously, maybe it was an inside joke of the producers)

or this:

KIRK: Scotty, where've you been? Where are you?
SCOTT: In the Sickbay.
KIRK: Are you sick?
SCOTT: Och, no. I was just checking on the lass. She's going to be fine now. There's nothing wrong with her.
KIRK: Well, I'm relieved to hear your prognosis, Mister Scott. Is the doctor there with you, or will I find him in Engineering?

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 05:34 PM   #24
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

I still like my idea of there being more than the three or four symbols we commonly saw. We usually saw them on the main characters, who were high level officers aboard ship with varied responsibilities. Spock as First Officer should wear the command star but wore the sciences oval. McCoy as CMO should have medical cross but with his greater life sciences command, he wore science oval.

I'd think that much of the crew had more limited duties and responsibilities, and a more specific symbol to indicate that. Ship's historian or phaser technician or A&A officer or Records officer or shuttle pilot. Seemingly specific duties, and broadly they could fit under command/science/engineering symbols. But what the hell, I imagine there are lots of others. TMP expanded on this with some additional logos and division symbols, (communications, environmental, tactical) and many fan-based ideas have contributed as well.
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2013, 02:04 AM   #25
Shawnster
Captain
 
Shawnster's Avatar
 
Location: Clinton, OH
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
With BK613's find, we're up to 4 variations of the delta patches

1. Star
2. Circular
3. Spiral
4. Rectangle with open right side

With these known parameters:
1. variations only exist on the delta patch,
2. not everyone wears the delta patch - some use a different design that doesn't have room for same variations
3. the delta patch is seen mixed in on other ships that might have different patches
4. character x can switch back and forth between delta patch variations

Then I guess that it is just a Starfleet patch. The variation is purely cosmetic. Or it might be a shift patch. It could indicate which of the three shifts the character is currently assigned to. But that wouldn't account for the other patches that don't have room for variations.
Don't forget Nurse Chapel (as already mentioned above)

Shawnster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2013, 02:11 AM   #26
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

While we're at it, I always thought that medical should get it's own symbol (pick one from the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual, probably the one on page 15), and security should get it's own, too (I don't know what, though).
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2013, 02:13 AM   #27
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Don't forget Nurse Chapel (as already mentioned above)
And don't forget that Nurse Chapel (and others) had two different styles of Red Cross patch--one with just a Red Cross, and the earlier style--with the Red Cross superimposed on the Sciences symbol.

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=1557
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2013, 02:20 AM   #28
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

I never thought about it, but division and department don't necessarily have to be the same. An officer could be assigned to a science or services department but still be in command division, or a command officer could be attached to a sciences department, or whatever. The badge and the shirt wouldn't have to match.

At the time, probably no one gave it a second thought.
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2013, 03:19 AM   #29
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
Don't forget Nurse Chapel (as already mentioned above)
And don't forget that Nurse Chapel (and others) had two different styles of Red Cross patch--one with just a Red Cross, and the earlier style--with the Red Cross superimposed on the Sciences symbol.

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=1557
Dang... Excellent research GSchnitzer

It is interesting that some variations are interchangeable.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 02:30 AM   #30
BK613
Captain
 
BK613's Avatar
 
Location: BK613
Re: Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
I never thought about it, but division and department don't necessarily have to be the same. An officer could be assigned to a science or services department but still be in command division, or a command officer could be attached to a sciences department, or whatever. The badge and the shirt wouldn't have to match.

At the time, probably no one gave it a second thought.
Or the red/blue/yellow each had command/science/engineering specialists in them. or vice versa.
__________________
-------------------
"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place." - George Bernard Shaw
BK613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
assignment patches, insignia, uniforms

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.