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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 24 2013, 09:36 PM   #16
Nagisa Furukawa
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I'm thinking in my head right now of the 10 or so most famous horror movies and most of them don't even have a black character (Psycho, Halloween etc). Others do but the black guy is competent and lasts a fair amount of time (Alien). The Shining is the only one that even fits the rule you mention.
And even that one is only one by a technicality. When people say it, they mean a group of people (probably teens) of which the black guy dies first. Where as O'Halloran is only the "first" to die because he's the only one who dies. He's set up throughout the movie as a possible ace-in-the-hole to use his power and save the day and like two hours into the film, he finally arrives and... gets an axe to the chest. Hardly redshirt territory.

You're absolutely right; it IS revisionist nonsense.
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Old February 24 2013, 09:53 PM   #17
Redfern
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
...he finally arrives and... gets an axe to the chest. Hardly redshirt territory.
Well, if it wasn't red before, it certainly was after the axe!

Sincerely,

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Old February 24 2013, 10:19 PM   #18
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

OK, I wasn't talking so much about "black dude in redshirt" as "black dude plus redshirt". What got me going on this was seeing the late Paul Winfield in something and thinking 3 onscreen deaths that came to mind without even thinking about it. (ST2, Wiseguy, Damnation Alley) I was making no specific comment about Star Trek, which, notable exceptions like "Code of Honor" aside was always ahead of it's time in the treatment of minorities. I happened to see "By any Other Name" recently and realized that aspect of Shea's survival (and the death of the female redshirt).
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Old February 24 2013, 10:21 PM   #19
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

^ No Terminator?
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Old February 25 2013, 12:21 AM   #20
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

Honestly when I first saw this at around age 9 (in early 70s syndication), I was more taken by the fact that a woman died instead of a man, regardless of his race.

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Old February 25 2013, 12:32 AM   #21
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

Lol - if it's good enough to appear in Scary Movie, it's good enough to appear on these boards. I do think that the scene was very, very deliberate. They wanted to toy with the expectations of the time and they succeeded. If Grace Lee Whitney had still been playing Rand, what a fabulous and shocking end that would have given her character.
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Old February 25 2013, 02:11 AM   #22
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
So said Cronan Thompson, a Usenet poster who used to do tongue-in-cheek reviews of sf and horror shows and movies
I remember him! He was a regular on alt.tv.star-trek.voyager way back when. That was a time. (I was 'Keeper of the Purple Twilight' on that group)
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Old February 25 2013, 02:13 AM   #23
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

"The Black Guy Dies First"
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Old February 25 2013, 02:23 AM   #24
CorporalCaptain
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Yeah, TV Tropes always has me in stitches!

In the Star Trek section of that article, once again, they nail it:

A Star Trek: The Next Generation example - in "Where Silence Has Lease" an alien face on the viewscreen says that he wants to understand death by way of killing about half the crew and starts by killing the pilot, the spot normally manned by Wesley Crusher. But he's away from the post at the time, the only time in the whole episode, replaced by a Red Shirt black guy.
OMFG, yeah! This was so embarrassing when that episode aired.

In an alternate timeline of Star Trek: Enterprise wherein the Xindi are successful in their genocidal bid to eradicate humanity, Travis Mayweather is the first of the main characters to die.
Poor Travis!

An aversion: Early in the Star Trek episode “By Any Other Name”, the alien Kelvans reduce two Red Shirts to blocks: Lieutenant Shea, a black guy, and Yeoman Thompson, a woman. The Kelvan leader crushes one block, killing that crewmember, and restores the other block; Thompson’s the dead one, and Shea is restored to normal.
And wouldn't you know it? The article discusses By Any Other Name, basically as if it rubs up against the trope.
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Old February 25 2013, 07:20 PM   #25
Duncan MacLeod
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

The scene was going for emotional impact. If you want emotional impact when the bad guy kills someone, have him kill a beautiful young woman or a cute child. Not some random smuck. That's why he lived and she died, color had nothing to do with it.
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Old February 25 2013, 07:41 PM   #26
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

My surprise at this scene had nothing to do with race, but that instead of the man, the cute girl with the shapely legs bit the dust.
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Old February 26 2013, 05:37 AM   #27
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

Metryq wrote: View Post
E-DUB wrote: View Post
It might be interesting for someone to come up with a statistic like for baseball. Number of screen deaths per x number of appearances and compare black and white actors with otherwise similar demographics.
Why should "someone" come up with these stats? Because you have some particular axe to grind? We're supposedly living in an enlightened world were sex and race don't matter. Yet I repeatedly see proclamations of "first woman this", "first black that", "first latino whatever." Now tell me who is racist and sexist here? Give people more credit for their personal achievements than some arbitrary and politically correct pigeonhole.
Outstanding!
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Old February 26 2013, 06:04 AM   #28
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

AtoZ wrote: View Post
Metryq wrote: View Post
E-DUB wrote: View Post
It might be interesting for someone to come up with a statistic like for baseball. Number of screen deaths per x number of appearances and compare black and white actors with otherwise similar demographics.
Why should "someone" come up with these stats? Because you have some particular axe to grind? We're supposedly living in an enlightened world were sex and race don't matter. Yet I repeatedly see proclamations of "first woman this", "first black that", "first latino whatever." Now tell me who is racist and sexist here? Give people more credit for their personal achievements than some arbitrary and politically correct pigeonhole.
Outstanding!
Merely collecting historical data of television programs isn't "racist" or "sexist". There's no implication of approval in studying the way things were.

Historians collect all kinds of data. Would you accuse people who study the progress of civil rights of being either racist or sexist? That's absurd.

On the other hand, people who distort or suppress history would seem to have axes to grind.
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Old February 26 2013, 09:36 AM   #29
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
On the other hand, people who distort or suppress history would seem to have axes to grind.
The original poster was making an a priori statement, only later asking someone else to come up with stats to back it up. Yet I am being accused of distorting and suppressing history.
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Old February 26 2013, 10:02 AM   #30
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Re: The luckiest guy in TOS

Metryq wrote: View Post
Yet I am being accused of distorting and suppressing history.
I read you as trying to tar anybody who would collect stats on ethnicity and sex in television as having an ax to grind. The purpose of my remarks was to refute that notion. Perhaps your beef is just with the OP?
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