Starfleet Command Insignia

[BillJ]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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Apparently, the producers wanted to suggest something about Wesley and the Lexington being different and I'd dare to say that a bigger chair suggests bigger authority.


Bob

Or it suggests that their on a different bridge? Since they were cutting back and forth they wanted something cheap to differentiate the two?

[Robert Comsol]

BillJ wrote:

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Or it suggests that their on a different bridge? Since they were cutting back and forth they wanted something cheap to differentiate the two?

Possible, but unlikely, IMHO. We saw most of the Lexington's bridge scenes on the Enterprise's bridge viewscreen, so I'd say there was sufficient differentiation not to confuse the two.

Vice versa, it then would have made more sense to equip the Exeter with the high chair, so that audiences would have understood that our protagonists didn't watch a transmission from the Enterprise but the Exeter's log of its chief medical officer.

Bob

[BillJ]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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Possible, but unlikely, IMHO. We saw most of the Lexington's bridge scenes on the Enterprise's bridge viewscreen, so I'd say there was sufficient differentiation not to confuse the two.

Vice versa, it then would have made more sense to equip the Exeter with the high chair, so that audiences would have understood that our protagonists didn't watch a transmission from the Enterprise but the Exeter's log of its chief medical officer.

Probably didn't need to since the Exeter crew, including the Chief Medical Officer, were wearing different patches on their shirts. Add the fact that we watched Kirk and Company beam over to another ship.

[GSchnitzer]

I think seeing Bridge B from the viewscreen of Bridge A makes it more confusing, not less confusing. I would speculate that reusing the "Mirror, Mirror" extended back of the command chair was a quick, shorthand way for set decorator John Dwyer to differentiate one Bridge from the other so the audience would better follow what was going on. We had to do silmilar stuff to the Bridge when we showed shots of the Bridge of the USS Copernicus on the viewscreen of the Bridge of the Enterprise in "Blood and Fire." Doing something--anything--to make the Bridges look different is just one more thing that will help the audicence follow what's going on.

[J.T.B.]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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Possible, but unlikely, IMHO. We saw most of the Lexington's bridge scenes on the Enterprise's bridge viewscreen, so I'd say there was sufficient differentiation not to confuse the two.

Agreed, he was giving helm orders so it would seem he is on the bridge. But some of the confusion does seem to stem from the fact that Trek never set up anything like a "flag bridge." The only position of command was the big chair on the main bridge. Any superior had to either hang around with nowhere to sit, or take the center seat. This extended into the movies, too.

So, it's hard to reconcile: If Wesley is indeed the ship's commanding officer, why does he wear the Starbase/Starfleet Command badge? And if he's a higher level commander, what is the captain doing?

[Pavonis]

If Commodore Wesley is the task force commander, then the starship's captain is still on duty, but where would Commodore Wesley command from? There's no obvious place for a flag officer to command anything from except the center chair. I suppose that as ranking officer of the exercise, the Lexington's skipper had to give up his seat to Wesley. Maybe the captain was down in auxiliary control, then, watching over his own ship while the bridge was being used to coordinate the task force command?

[BillJ]

My question would be this: if Wesley is the captain of the Lexington, why didn't they outfit it with the M-5 while waiting for the Enterprise to arrive for the war games? Originally, we don't see any starships at the starbase (which was changed in the remastered version).

I think Wesley was, at that point, a desk officer likely in charge of the overall development and testing of M-5. The complete and utter failure of the project is likely why he was a civilian in TAS.

[Robert Comsol]

J.T.B. wrote:

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So, it's hard to reconcile: If Wesley is indeed the ship's commanding officer, why does he wear the Starbase/Starfleet Command badge? And if he's a higher level commander, what is the captain doing?

I recommend to take a look at post # 65 and my suggestions.
Unless these, too, fall under the category of heresy and merit my persecution by the Holy Inquisition of the Church of Constitution.

Bob

[BillJ]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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I recommend to take a look at post # 65 and my suggestions.
Unless these, too, fall under the category of heresy and merit my persecution by the Holy Inquisition of the Church of Constitution.

Bob

No one's against suggestions to fill in the gaps. It only irks people when a poster digs in on one explanation and acts like everyone else is idiots for daring to think differently.

[J.T.B.]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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I recommend to take a look at post # 65 and my suggestions.
Unless these, too, fall under the category of heresy and merit my persecution by the Holy Inquisition of the Church of Constitution.

Nah, there's no heresy. But changing the insignia every few years to honor a certain ship? I don't think so. Besides being a PITA, it seems like a real morale killer. And who decides who's most deserving? Imagine if the US Army at the end of WW2 said, "OK, we've decided the 101st Airborne Division was the top division in the war. Everybody will get rid of their old patch and wear the 101st AB patch for the next five years." Too bad, Big Red One! Nice try, 82nd Airborne! Maybe next time, Spearhead!

I think it would be more negative than positive.

Justin

[CorporalCaptain]

J.T.B. wrote:

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But changing the insignia every few years to honor a certain ship? I don't think so.

Concur. I always thought that idea was ridiculous.

[Robert Comsol]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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Concur. I always thought that idea was ridiculous.

"Ridiculous" like in the Lexington's actual captain can't handle a simulator-tested war game excercise and needed to relinquish command to Commodore Wesley? Not exactly, what I'd call a morale booster for the Lexington's crew seeing their captain being pushed aside for a trivial excercise...

@ BillJ

If you seriously want to uphold your accusation that I "act like everyone else is idiots for daring to think differently" you better come up with some evidence, especially since the amount of remarks and ridicule at my expense suggest the opposite is true.

Just because I offer different interpretations and suggestions and thus apparently don't agree with the "moral majority" doesn't mean I think everyone else is an idiot.
Obviously there is a difference how we interpret canon and draw conclusion from the hints or evidence at hand.

Bob

[BillJ]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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Again, the entire "Constitution Class" business is entirely the result of non-canonical but popular fan fiction having successfully brainwashed late Star Trek productions at the expense of the canonical producers' ("Starship Class") and creator's ("Enterprise Class") intentions.

This.

It never ceases to amaze me, how the fanbase leaves no stone unturned to find ways to erase a canonical fact in favor of a myth (just because Scotty read a technical journal illustrating the primary phaser of a starship of a "Constitution Class").

[CorporalCaptain]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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"Ridiculous" like in the Lexington's actual captain can't handle a simulator-tested war game excercise and needed to relinquish command to Commodore Wesley? Not exactly, what I'd call a morale booster for the Lexington's crew seeing their captain being pushed aside for a trivial excercise...

We don't know what happened to the captain of the Lexington, if anything. I don't believe I've said what I think happened to him. For all we know, he was retiring, got promoted, was KIA, went insane, etc., etc.

And let's take a good look at the teaser to The Ultimate Computer. Kirk and Spock were both surprised to have Wesley beam aboard. If the Lexington was Bob's ship, where was she? Certainly not in scanning range of the space station!

What's ridiculous is that the crew of the Enterprise were Starfleet's very Mary Sues, the lot of them. Sure, we identify with them because they are the main characters, but at some point, the only-ship-in-the-quadrant trope became ridiculous. If that's the way it really was, then everyone else could have just stayed home, except when they're needed to stand in front of a phaser.

[Robert Comsol]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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And let's take a good look at the teaser to The Ultimate Computer. Kirk and Spock were both surprised to have Wesley beam aboard. If the Lexington was Bob's ship, where was she? Certainly not in scanning range of the space station!

You got a point, apparently Lexington was nowwhere near the space station (unless it's a bigger one than K-7 but with similar proportions and capable to hold a ship inside, though I don't like this idea).

But Wesley could have used a warp shuttlecraft, leaving the ship with the first officer, to proceed to Commodore Enright's station to personally oversee Dr. Daystrom's final M-5 preparations.

Bob