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Old February 20 2013, 12:26 AM   #91
Guy Gardener
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

That means that Archer killed Trips family in season 2.

Do you really think that Trip would have stayed on the ship after finding out in season 5 that Archer killed his sister or that he would sacrifice himself to save Archer in season 9?
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Old February 20 2013, 06:09 PM   #92
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
People who live on third-hand information sometimes seem so desperate to have all the pieces fit together in a way that makes sense to them - or, even more unrealistically, in a way that makes satisfying sense to them.

That doesn't mean anything.

Again, he knows what he's talking about, from memory and experience, and no one here does. All you have is "I heard something else once that contradicts this" - perhaps from Braga himself in a different situation - or "that doesn't make sense with what I get out of watching the show."

And again, that doesn't mean anything. They might have intended many things different than what was produced. But sure, if it doesn't sound right to you just assume that the person who knows is a liar.
Be that as it may...I still think he's full of shit.
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Old February 20 2013, 08:45 PM   #93
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Braga was there and in charge; none of us were either of those. Why would I argue with what he claims he intended?

because people don't always tell the truth?
Wow. I did not know that.

And it doesn't begin to answer my question.

People who live on third-hand information sometimes seem so desperate to have all the pieces fit together in a way that makes sense to them - or, even more unrealistically, in a way that makes satisfying sense to them.

That doesn't mean anything.

Again, he knows what he's talking about, from memory and experience, and no one here does. All you have is "I heard something else once that contradicts this" - perhaps from Braga himself in a different situation - or "that doesn't make sense with what I get out of watching the show."

And again, that doesn't mean anything. They might have intended many things different than what was produced. But sure, if it doesn't sound right to you just assume that the person who knows is a liar.

BTW, the "spend a season building the Enterprise" is not a new piece of information; either Braga or Berman has spoken of that more than once.

The timing of it(claiming this so many years later), and as you write, the contradictions to previous info(second-hand as it may be), and finally the motive that he knows this "revelation" will cause discussion and get him attention, lead me to think that he's just saying this as a way to get that attention, and that it's not serious.


I could be wrong. It's just one guy's speculation on a message board, so it doesn't really matter.
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Old February 20 2013, 09:59 PM   #94
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

Clearly a Congressional inquiry is in order...
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Old February 25 2013, 12:57 AM   #95
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

This IS the inquiry. We are the people that matter.
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Old February 25 2013, 04:42 AM   #96
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

It's very possible at some point FG was planned as Archer, but once the story started to take shape, it must have changed immediately.
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Old February 25 2013, 04:51 AM   #97
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

If the people who created something say that they had a certain intention, you have no basis on which to challenge that.

None at all.

You can only argue about whether they effectively acted on their intention, which is quite a different thing.
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Old February 25 2013, 05:02 AM   #98
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

Everything Future Guy did HELPED humanity.

Destroying the Kingons, saving Enterprise from blowing up , not quite sure about Shockwave but it was Daniels who destroyed the universe, then finally explaining the first Xindi attack on Earth.

Does he really sound like a villain?
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Old February 25 2013, 09:32 PM   #99
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
If the people who created something say that they had a certain intention, you have no basis on which to challenge that.

None at all.

You can only argue about whether they effectively acted on their intention, which is quite a different thing.
There are a number of literary critics and Derrida-esque theorists who should be made to copy this on the blackboard a few hundred times.
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Old February 25 2013, 09:46 PM   #100
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

I REALLY don't care for this theory, I'm afraid.

Future Guy was stated by Daniels, as being from the 29th Century. He's from even further ahead and ought to know. Earlier factions don't appear to employ time-travel, and get natives of the 22nd Century to do their dirty work. Simply broadcasting themselves back through time, to give schematics for technology that's too advanced or does in fact exist and is just beyond the Suliban/Tholian/whoever it is being aided.

Assuming Archer spends his dotage, thanks to some accidental transport to the far future... how and why would he reward the Suliban with genetic alterations and cloaking technology... that make them such a threat to the 22nd Century?

They killed a whole colony in "Shockwave" and framed it so an Enterprise shuttlepod ignited the atmosphere, with the express purpose of setting humanity's deep space program back. Millions of people wiped out. Decades until Starfleet tried again in all probability. How would Archer have benefitted from that? What's more, why would an older version of the same character, authorise something like that?

A Romulan would be my suggestion. How different would their history be, without pesky humans throwing their weight around the galaxy? A Vulcan-Romulus reunification by 2161, instead of an alliance of that cuts them off permanently from their ancestral brothers. Ultimately given what happened in the last film, they might even still have a homeworld without the Federation around. Or else, Vulcan as the capital planet in their quadrant spanning Empire.

In my opinion, whoever might've turned out to be Future Guy, would have to have been introduced during one of the later, unmade seasons. Probably become deceased quite swiftly, to throw everybody off the scent... Meanwhile the Suliban have been replaced by the Xindi, and then by the Romulans as the main enemy race. Future Guy naturally switches sides by appearing to betray Silik, and giving assistance that enables them to conquer both the Suliban and Tandarans. Bringing the borders of their Empire closer to areas of deep space, the Enterprise NX-01 had already passed by during late Season 1/early Season 2.
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Old February 25 2013, 10:52 PM   #101
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

Blowing up that colony would have stopped the Xindi. The Federation would no longer be a threat and Enterprise would have been close enough to Earth to repel the probe if it had been launched, which it wouldn't have been. However then the Sphere builders would have renovated the Galaxy... So Archers Xinid adventures could not be sidestepped, and really he needed to step up the time table on that.
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Old February 25 2013, 11:23 PM   #102
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Blowing up that colony would have stopped the Xindi. The Federation would no longer be a threat and Enterprise would have been close enough to Earth to repel the probe if it had been launched, which it wouldn't have been. However then the Sphere builders would have renovated the Galaxy... So Archers Xinid adventures could not be sidestepped, and really he needed to step up the time table on that.
That's the one time Future Guy had to help. He has no alternative. Wherever he's from, obviously in the future, a Delphic Expanse would swallow up his homeworld too.

Season 1's "Cold Front" is the puzzler. Why he'd want to prevent the destruction of the Enterprise inside the Great Plume of Agasoria is anyone's guess. Especially since he doesn't intervene at any other time. It could've been destroyed by the Suliban in the cliffhanger to "Shockwave, Part I". Perhaps Future Guy has some incentive that an event in one of those episodes after "Cold Front" still happens? He needed the NX-01 to have a year's worth of voyages, passing through Suliban and Tandaran territory. By "Shockwave" they're suddenly fair game and a valid target again.
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Old February 25 2013, 11:37 PM   #103
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

Perhaps because every other near miss Enterprise had was a near miss, it's not like they needed additional help not to die horribly when they weren't going to die horribly.

In Coldfront however they died.

Daniels was annoyed.

Daniels future was unravelling because Archer lived.

If Daniels hadn't died taking on the Suliban, his next and only step would have been to destroy Enteprise and Archer, otherwise he wouldn't be born.

Meanwhile if Future Guy is Archer?

Predestination paradox.

Without saving himself he wouldn't be there to save himself.
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Old February 25 2013, 11:43 PM   #104
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
It's very possible at some point FG was planned as Archer, but once the story started to take shape, it must have changed immediately.
If they wanted it to be Archer, then that's what they wanted. Nothing about what I understand about Future Guy and his influence over the Suliban seems to make any sense at all with it being Archer. On the whole, he's a very decent human being through the Enterprise's missions. Can you see him being responsible for the Suliban? Changing their species and helping to distribute stealth technology? How does he justify that?

I think Manny Coto would've had different ideas, based on a comment he made at a convention once. But Future Guy is a Berman and Braga creation and they'd have the final say.
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Old February 26 2013, 12:09 AM   #105
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Re: Braga: "Archer was supposed to be Future Guy"

I really like the idea of Archer being Future Guy.

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
If they wanted it to be Archer, then that's what they wanted. Nothing about what I understand about Future Guy and his influence over the Suliban seems to make any sense at all with it being Archer. On the whole, he's a very decent human being through the Enterprise's missions. Can you see him being responsible for the Suliban? Changing their species and helping to distribute stealth technology? How does he justify that?
Well that would be kinda the point. Something terrible happened, making Archer do these things. Then you'd have the contrast of young, good Archer vs. old, bad Archer. Imagine you meet your future self and recognize that you become the next Hitler despite your best intentions. That's a great theme.

It really would have elevated the show. "Future Guy is a Romulan" simply doesn't have that ring to it. So the main bad guy is from the Bad Guy Empire. Quelle surprise!
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