NBA 2012-13 Discussion

[gblews]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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Well, Chamberlain was traded to the Lakers (I assume he demanded it, but it's mostly because Los Angeles could afford to pay a fuckton of money).

He was traded to the Lakers because they were the team willing to put up the assets and were bold enough to make the deal. As for "demanding" to be traded, that didn't carry any weight back in 1969. There was no free agency. The 76ers received some good young talent for Wilt, and were willing to pull the trigger in a move to go in a different direction. As for money, again, there was no free agency so every team in the league could technically have afforded Wilt.

Abdul-Jabbar was traded for as well, but I don't know the story behind that.

Kareem asked to be traded, preferrably to New York or L.A. or any big city. He wanted out of Milwaukee. The Lakers, BTW, didn't win a championship with Kareem until they drafted Magic, some 5 years after Kareem's acquisition.

I don't really consider Malone to be a Laker, but that was a weird situation of a team that looked like it could win but desperately needed something so a player took a last ditch chance to win by jumping on board. I'd have to think who else he could have signed with. Detroit, Sacramento, and San Antonio had big men. Maybe the Nets or the Celtics would have worked, but the team with Phil Jackson seemed like the smarter bet. Also, in the absence of Shaq, the Lakers had greater need.

"Desperatly needed"? The Lakers were one year removed from 3 straight championships and still had a very servicable Shaquille and a young Kobe just entering his prime AND Phil Jackson. Not exactly sure what your point is here either but Karl knew (as did most others) that the Lakers, perennial contenders, were the choice if he was going to win a ring in the NBA. Oh, and sorry, but Karl was a Laker and even though they fell short of expectations, that team did make it to the Finals.

Fans, writers and players, moan about the allure of L.A., but the Clippers played here for years and all players could think of was a way out of L.A. It is not about Los Angeles, it is about winning and that is who the Lakers are.

So, aside from big pockets and well-timed good fortune, I'm not sure what it says.

"Big pockets" - "good fortune"

I'm afraid that this is the card most fans around the league like to play most when trying to explain the Lakers' continued success. But they have been winners since the early 50's when big pockets and "big markets" meant nothing. Even though they failed to win a championship in the late 50's, early 60's (after winning 5), they played in the Finals something like 10 times during this period.

Nope, it is A LOT more than money and luck. The Lakers as an organization have done what other NBA franchises have not: demanded, and achieved success at the highest levels over a span of 60 some odd years. Their closest rivals as a franchise (in any sport) would be the Yankees IF MLB had spent the last decade or two with a salary cap.

The Lakers have a history of boldness where other teams are timid -- constantly worried about their vaunted "future". That's why for most teams, their championships will always be; "in the future".

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't really see the point fighting. My only point was that these were odd circumstances and, given the small sample size, doesn't say much besides a good franchise has had good players in the past. Although two quibbles:
Chamberlain demanded a trade from the Warriors to the Sixers, so he did have the power to push for a trade.
Would you consider Michael Jordan a Washington Wizard?

Anyway, in other news: Skip Bayless is reporting that Andrew Bynum's knees are beyond repair and that the Sixers were "had" in the trade.

It's not Bynum's fault, I know he wants to play. This is certainly disappointing. I do hope it was unforseeable before the trade. I'm not exactly sure what we would have done since Iguodala needed to be traded, but it would obviously have been different.

It puts the Sixers in an odd position. The team is basically built around him because they need an inside threat. But he has a one year contract so, if he's done, the Sixers can try a shot at free agency. The problem is there isn't an inside threat that can replace him and complement a team of pull up shooters.

[gblews]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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I don't really see the point fighting. My only point was that these were odd circumstances and, given the small sample size, doesn't say much besides a good franchise has had good players in the past.

And my point is, this has not been an accident or primarily facilitated by luck. BTW, it's not a fight, it's a disagreement.

Although two quibbles:
Chamberlain demanded a trade from the Warriors to the Sixers, so he did have the power to push for a trade.
Would you consider Michael Jordan a Washington Wizard?

Chamberlain or any other player could have demanded whatever they wanted back then, but it had no clout other than the player's threat to retire. Free agency didn't exist. The Warriors consented to the trade probably for a lot of reasons, but fear of losing Chamberlain for nothing wasn't one of them.

Though popularly known as a Bull, Jordan was also a Wizard.

Anyway, in other news: Skip Bayless is reporting that Andrew Bynum's knees are beyond repair and that the Sixers were "had" in the trade.

It's not Bynum's fault, I know he wants to play. This is certainly disappointing. I do hope it was unforseeable before the trade. I'm not exactly sure what we would have done since Iguodala needed to be traded, but it would obviously have been different.

It puts the Sixers in an odd position. The team is basically built around him because they need an inside threat. But he has a one year contract so, if he's done, the Sixers can try a shot at free agency. The problem is there isn't an inside threat that can replace him and complement a team of pull up shooters.

I read Andrew quoted as stating that he had very little cartilage in one of his knees. This was a bit of a surprise to me because his two worst injries were ligaments. The Lakers were prepared to play with Andrew this season if the Dwight deal had not happened. I think if they'd known Andrew's knees might not allow him to play, they would have tried harder for Dwight.

But also, I wouldn't take anything Skip Bayless says about the NBA as gospel.

One thing is for certain though, even if he does play this season, Andrew can kiss a max deal goodbye. I'm still hopeful though. I want to see the kid do well.

[tomalak301]

I hope Steph Curry gets into the All Star Game. It's almost like every time I watch him he is just clutch and yesterday's matinee game was incredibly fun to watch. Can't believe the Warriors had the Clips number this year, even though I wish they had scheduled a game in April for the stretch run.

[boobatuba]

Sorry, I don't want to read the entire thread. Are the Thunder still stupid for trading Harden?

[gblews]

boobatuba wrote:

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Sorry, I don't want to read the entire thread. Are the Thunder still stupid for trading Harden?

We won't know until the playoffs.

[Neroon]

Rajon Rondo is out for the season with an ACL tear...... Hate to say it but that may have been the Celtics' season right there.

[Dorian Thompson]

If the Thunder don't win the championship it won't be for lack of James Harden. Looks like the Lakers may have finally gotten their crap together, but is it too late? There's zero room for error.

[gblews]

Neroon wrote:

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Rajon Rondo is out for the season with an ACL tear...... Hate to say it but that may have been the Celtics' season right there.

This is a disaster for the Celts and as much as I despise all things green, I feel for them. Rondo was the heart and soul of that team. He was their engine. They might make the playoffs based on the weakness of the East and fumes, but I don't expect them to get out of the first round unless they can get into the 6th or at least the 7th spot.

It shoulda been Pierce.

Dorian Thompson wrote:

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If the Thunder don't win the championship it won't be for lack of James Harden. Looks like the Lakers may have finally gotten their crap together, but is it too late? There's zero room for error.

Rarely is one player the sole reason for any team losing (or winning) a playoff series be it by his presence or absence. That's not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that we won't know the full impact of not having a player of Harden's caliber until the playoffs.

As for your comment about the Lakers, -- agree generally, but looks can be deceiving. We start a 7 game road trip tomorrow.

[poundpuppy29]

I don't have much hope for the Celtics this year without Rondo but I hope I am wrong

[gblews]

With Dwight stil out nursing his little "owee", now Pau may be out for a few weeks and we're going into Boston, just to put a cherry on it. We've already lost Jordan Hill for the season. Sigh, why does bad stuff always happen to us. Why can't bad stuff happen to other teams and not to us.

[gblews]

RIP Dr. Buss, the greatest owner in any major sport of his generation. Without him the NBA would not be the international success it is now. He brought a sense of showmanship and style fitting of the modern era of the NBA with his team's open, fast break attack, the Laker Girls, courting of movie stars, winning, etc. He was always classy in victory or defeat.

I remember going to a game at the Forum in the first year of his ownership and watching him step over seats on his way up to the Loge. I looked at him and thought, "now, that man is walking like he owns the place". RIP.

[Timby]

I like to imagine that Buss' final words were, "Fuck you, Dwight."

[gblews]

Hmm, so the Thunder are on the verge of re-signing Derek Fisher, at least according to a recent report I read yesterday. Verrrrrry interesting. Didn't they also trade Eric Maynor before the deadline too?

My admittedly negative take on all this backcourt activity may be the dreded "domino effect" in action. The domino effect sometimes occurs when a team trades a key player (oreven, sometimes not so key) and that trade has ripples far down the line that may not have been visible back when the original decision was made.

For example, and this is hypothetical, Thunder kinda okay with letting Harden go because among other things (including Kelvin Martin, who is no Harden), they also have hot young prospect, Maynor, coming back from injury.

But Maynor obviously didn't work out so they (reportedly) trade him, possibly in a salary dump, and now need another guard. Thus, Fish (who I still love). Had Harden stayed, there may not have been nearly the pressure on Maynor to succeed "now" and he might still be a Thunder and Fish -- still unemployed. Course I could be completely wrong, but it just smells true to me.

Marc Cuban is a world class A-hole and a basketball idiot.

[gblews]

It is difficult to express how hard I am rooting against the Heat catching and breaking the Lakers' 33 game win streak record. That record, now 40 years old, is one of the most hallowed team records in the NBA. This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with LeBron hate. I would root against any team closing in on this record.

Most acclaimed NBA team records (IMO):

No. 1 is the most championships, held by the Celts at 17 (after they broke the Lakers' record sometime in the 60's).
No. 2 is the regular season record, held by the Bulls at 72-10 (after breaking the Lakers' record).
No. 3 is the 33 game win streak, held by the Lakers since 1972 (after they shattered the Bucks' 20 game streak set just a season or two earlier).

I don't care who it is, I want the Lakers to hold onto this one. Of the 3, it really is the most difficult one to reach, though not as difficult today as it was back in '72.

So I say, "go, whoever the hell is playing the Heat in the next 6 games", because they are now at 27.