The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing - Page 6

DalekJim · February 24 2013, 05:05 PM

Saul wrote:

I'm not pissed that we have two great shows instead of one.

This. DS9 is my favourite Trek and JMS's effort to turn television in to a more literary medium was astonishing. Both are 2 of the best TV shows anybody could watch and the world is richer for both being around.

Better 2 complex, thoughtful shows about space-stations than a million reality shows about singing aimed at morons.

RandyS · February 24 2013, 05:57 PM

Forbin wrote:

Turtletrekker wrote:

I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.

Oh, jms freely admits that as his main inspiration. LotR and, I think, Arthurian legend. Or was it Greek mythology

You know, I've never read the Lord of the Rings series, but with all the comparisons to B5, a sci-fi universe I love second only to Star Trek, you guys are making a VERY convincing argument in it's favor.

DalekJim · February 24 2013, 06:41 PM

Well, you should read LOTR anyway as it's an amazing read (Also check out The Silmarillion!) but people aren't exaggerating when they say B5 took a lot from it.

Started an S1 rewatch of B5 earlier. Michael O'Hare has such a wonderful voice for a science-fiction saga. Miss that guy a lot.

JoeD80 · February 24 2013, 06:55 PM

Lord of the Rings is just one of many influences on Babylon 5. I would bet that Joe has read and watched more stories than a majority of the audience watching the show. There's a lot more to discover than Tolkien in there. Even in B5's original conception notes (http://www.cafepress.com/b5books/6587738) he also mentions Foundation, Lensman, Dune, as well as several movies.

DalekJim · February 24 2013, 07:57 PM

Anybody that writes a large scale sci-fi which which doesn't take influence from Dune is doing something wrong. That book sparked my imagination in a few few have.

Gary Mitchell · February 24 2013, 11:49 PM

Wait. I think B5 and DS9 both stole ideas from Space: 1999. All 3 took place on space stations, all 3 had commanders in charge, and they all had a shape-shifter character. It's a conspiracy I tell you.

Professor Zoom · February 24 2013, 11:51 PM

Gary Mitchell wrote:

Wait. I think B5 and DS9 both stole ideas from Space: 1999. All 3 took place on space stations, all 3 had commanders in charge, and they all had a shape-shifter character. It's a conspiracy I tell you.

Because the internet demands it, I'm going to be pedantic. Space: 1999 took place on a MOON base, not a space station.

Gary Mitchell · February 24 2013, 11:54 PM

I still think it qualifies. It's just sitting on a big rock.

JoeD80 · February 25 2013, 12:27 AM

Uh that rock was traveling through space because it had been broken from Earth's orbit. A little different than just sitting there.

Gary Mitchell · February 25 2013, 12:40 AM

Uh, thanks Mr. Wizard.

CorporalCaptain · February 25 2013, 01:02 AM

Everyone's argument is invalid.

Thunderbird 3 was a spaceship and Thunderbird 5 was a space station. Everything is copying off of Thunderbirds.

Also, true story: Thunderbirds literally had 'droids, too.

Professor Zoom · February 25 2013, 01:28 AM

Gary Mitchell wrote:

I still think it qualifies. It's just sitting on a big rock.

Whereas DS9 and B5 float in SPACE...

JoeD80 wrote:

Uh that rock was traveling through space because it had been broken from Earth's orbit. A little different than just sitting there.

No. It's the rock that's doing all of the moving. The moon base literally is just sitting there. On the moon. Not moving.

chrisspringob · February 25 2013, 02:28 AM

Mr Light wrote:

I'm pretty sure Dukhat was part of the original proposal of B5 so he was created in the mid 80s.

He's definitely *not* mentioned in either the "JMS's notes when he came out of the shower", when he first thought of the idea for B5, nor is he mentioned in the 7 page outline of the arc that JMS wrote for WB early on in production. Of course, JMS had a lot of other material from the early days that he's never released, but we don't know exactly what details are included in that extra material.

Is there really any way to guess at whether Dukhat was referred to in any of JMS's notes before either B5 or DS9 went into production?

Forbin · February 25 2013, 04:29 AM

See? Fun discussion with humor, friendliness and no yelling. I knew we could do it.

And hey, Space Angel predated all of the above, with its cool space station and cool space ship, and really freaky human mouths on cartoon people.

DigificWriter · February 25 2013, 09:03 AM

I started a DS9 rewatch a month or two ago (and should really get back to it), and came to the realization/conclusion that this whole perceived 'rivalry' between the two series - insofar as one being a rip-off of the other is concerned -is incredibly overblown. I am saying this as someone who loves both series. Here's why this whole rivalry is overblown:

The entire basic premise of the two series are completely different.

Babylon 5 is, at its core, about the Shadow War, with the developments involving Sinclair and later Sheridan being portrayed as quasi-spiritual figures are elements of that premise.

Conversely, Sisko's status as the Emissary IS DS9's premise; everything that happens in the series - including the Dominion War - flows on from and pivots off of that from the get-go.

Yes, both series have similarities when it comes to their settings, certain character names, and certain thematic plot elements, but, at their core, are entirely different series despite what some - including JMS himself - might believe and/or claim.

February 24 2013, 06:41 PM	#78
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Well, you should read LOTR anyway as it's an amazing read (Also check out The Silmarillion!) but people aren't exaggerating when they say B5 took a lot from it. Started an S1 rewatch of B5 earlier. Michael O'Hare has such a wonderful voice for a science-fiction saga. Miss that guy a lot. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "Four things cannot be hidden - love, smoke, a pillar of fire and a man striding across the open bled." - Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert

February 24 2013, 06:55 PM	#79
JoeD80 Captain Location: Los Angeles	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Lord of the Rings is just one of many influences on Babylon 5. I would bet that Joe has read and watched more stories than a majority of the audience watching the show. There's a lot more to discover than Tolkien in there. Even in B5's original conception notes (http://www.cafepress.com/b5books/6587738) he also mentions Foundation, Lensman, Dune, as well as several movies.

February 24 2013, 07:57 PM	#80
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Anybody that writes a large scale sci-fi which which doesn't take influence from Dune is doing something wrong. That book sparked my imagination in a few few have. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "Four things cannot be hidden - love, smoke, a pillar of fire and a man striding across the open bled." - Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert

February 24 2013, 11:49 PM	#81
Gary Mitchell Vice Admiral Location: Delta Vega ¯\_(°·O)_/¯	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Wait. I think B5 and DS9 both stole ideas from Space: 1999. All 3 took place on space stations, all 3 had commanders in charge, and they all had a shape-shifter character. It's a conspiracy I tell you. __________________ The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

February 24 2013, 11:54 PM	#83
Gary Mitchell Vice Admiral Location: Delta Vega ¯\_(°·O)_/¯	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing I still think it qualifies. It's just sitting on a big rock. __________________ The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

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February 25 2013, 12:27 AM	#84
JoeD80 Captain Location: Los Angeles	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Uh that rock was traveling through space because it had been broken from Earth's orbit. A little different than just sitting there.

February 25 2013, 12:40 AM	#85
Gary Mitchell Vice Admiral Location: Delta Vega ¯\_(°·O)_/¯	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Uh, thanks Mr. Wizard. __________________ The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

February 25 2013, 01:02 AM	#86
CorporalCaptain Vice Admiral Location: In pre-production	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing Everyone's argument is invalid. Thunderbird 3 was a spaceship and Thunderbird 5 was a space station. Everything is copying off of Thunderbirds. Also, true story: Thunderbirds literally had 'droids, too. __________________ John

February 25 2013, 04:29 AM	#89
Forbin Admiral Location: I said out, dammit!	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing See? Fun discussion with humor, friendliness and no yelling. I knew we could do it. And hey, Space Angel predated all of the above, with its cool space station and cool space ship, and really freaky human mouths on cartoon people. __________________ My kitbashes: http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage.html My Kitbash Wallpapers: http://www.inpayne.com/models/wallpa...allpapers.html My kitbash calendar: http://inpayne.com/calendar/kbcalendar2013.html

February 25 2013, 09:03 AM	#90
DigificWriter Rear Admiral Location: West Haven, UT, USA	Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing I started a DS9 rewatch a month or two ago (and should really get back to it), and came to the realization/conclusion that this whole perceived 'rivalry' between the two series - insofar as one being a rip-off of the other is concerned -is incredibly overblown. I am saying this as someone who loves both series. Here's why this whole rivalry is overblown: The entire basic premise of the two series are completely different. Babylon 5 is, at its core, about the Shadow War, with the developments involving Sinclair and later Sheridan being portrayed as quasi-spiritual figures are elements of that premise. Conversely, Sisko's status as the Emissary IS DS9's premise; everything that happens in the series - including the Dominion War - flows on from and pivots off of that from the get-go. Yes, both series have similarities when it comes to their settings, certain character names, and certain thematic plot elements, but, at their core, are entirely different series despite what some - including JMS himself - might believe and/or claim. __________________ Starbuck: We're all friendlies. So, let's just... be friendly. "Ze director's cut is ze film you saw in ze theater."