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Old February 24 2013, 01:18 AM   #61
Avon
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

sisko's hair situation is totally stolen from garibaldi
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Old February 24 2013, 04:29 AM   #62
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

junxon wrote: View Post
sisko's hair situation is totally stolen from garibaldi


I'm envious of the Chase Masterson flirting. Suzy Plakson did that with me at a Creation Con in NJ, and I almost hyperventilated.

Good point about the DS9 anniversary being all but forgotten. I've been rewatching it lately (just finished S5), and apart from the unbearable Ferengi comedy episodes, it still holds up as a great show.
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Old February 24 2013, 04:50 AM   #63
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.
I was waiting for someone to say that.

Another thing people aren't mentioning (it may be later in the thread) is the serial nature of the DS9 story. Trek was really a bottle-type of show where the universe was largely the same after as before. B5 was designed with one long "arc". Some episodes could stand alone and had little "arc" material, but those tended to be the weakest. The innovation, the "draw" of B5 was the "arc" and that is what DS9 started to do more and more as the series went on, where you really had to tune in each week to follow what was happening. So my feeling is that DS9 saw how B5 was earning, if not ratings, at least critical praise for the "arc" and how it made B5 feel "epic" and decided to make the serial story format more prominent.

And sure enough, later on serial-type stories like Lost, Battlestar Remake, etc... are the standard rather than the exception with A-list 1-hour dramas.
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Old February 24 2013, 05:39 AM   #64
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

As many similarities as there are between the two shows, I'd wager that after the development of the pilot the DS9 writers had absolutely no knowledge of anything concerning B5.

I think there's bound to be some similar moves in the story by sheer coincidence, like both shows getting a tiny powerful warship in the third season premiere.
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Old February 24 2013, 06:01 AM   #65
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.
I was waiting for someone to say that.

Another thing people aren't mentioning (it may be later in the thread) is the serial nature of the DS9 story. Trek was really a bottle-type of show where the universe was largely the same after as before. B5 was designed with one long "arc". Some episodes could stand alone and had little "arc" material, but those tended to be the weakest. The innovation, the "draw" of B5 was the "arc" and that is what DS9 started to do more and more as the series went on, where you really had to tune in each week to follow what was happening. So my feeling is that DS9 saw how B5 was earning, if not ratings, at least critical praise for the "arc" and how it made B5 feel "epic" and decided to make the serial story format more prominent.

And sure enough, later on serial-type stories like Lost, Battlestar Remake, etc... are the standard rather than the exception with A-list 1-hour dramas.
The trend for serialized A-list drama begins in the 80s with shows like Hill Street Blues, St Elsewhere and LA Law. It was a trend that Star Trek was already behind on. I think those shows had a bigger impact on the people behind DS9 going for serialized story telling than B5 did.
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Old February 24 2013, 07:39 AM   #66
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Jan wrote: View Post

...

Then we can look at character name similarities such as Dukhat / Dukat and Lyta / Leeta

...
Hold on ... didn't Dukhat come later in B5? I thought he was retconned into B5 early history in the movie In The Beginning.
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Old February 24 2013, 07:56 AM   #67
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.
I was waiting for someone to say that.

Another thing people aren't mentioning (it may be later in the thread) is the serial nature of the DS9 story. Trek was really a bottle-type of show where the universe was largely the same after as before. B5 was designed with one long "arc". Some episodes could stand alone and had little "arc" material, but those tended to be the weakest. The innovation, the "draw" of B5 was the "arc" and that is what DS9 started to do more and more as the series went on, where you really had to tune in each week to follow what was happening. So my feeling is that DS9 saw how B5 was earning, if not ratings, at least critical praise for the "arc" and how it made B5 feel "epic" and decided to make the serial story format more prominent.

And sure enough, later on serial-type stories like Lost, Battlestar Remake, etc... are the standard rather than the exception with A-list 1-hour dramas.
The trend for serialized A-list drama begins in the 80s with shows like Hill Street Blues, St Elsewhere and LA Law. It was a trend that Star Trek was already behind on. I think those shows had a bigger impact on the people behind DS9 going for serialized story telling than B5 did.
I know that we think of it has a "bottle" show now, but at the time TNG was heavily praised for showing character development and referencing details from previous episodes, like Picard's flute or Worf's relationship with the Klingon empire.

DS9 and Voyager to a lesser extent, just pushed the envelope a little farther.
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Old February 24 2013, 08:10 AM   #68
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Psion wrote: View Post
Hold on ... didn't Dukhat come later in B5? I thought he was retconned into B5 early history in the movie In The Beginning.
Not at all. He was mentioned as early as 'Soul Hunter', episode 102, and again in several other episodes (A Voice in the Wilderness, A Late Delivery from Avalon, Severed Dreams, Babylon Squared and Atonement).

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Old February 24 2013, 08:12 AM   #69
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
And if it's any consolation, this summer the Phoenix ComicCon is having a huge Babylon 5 20th anniversary cast reunion. OTOH, no one seems to give a crap about DS9's 20th.
That is one drawback for DS9 and all of the other Star Trek spinoffs. Their identity is somewhat subsumed within the overall franchise. So when we have a 40th anniversary or 50th anniversary for Star Trek as a whole, the spinoffs get some recognition as part of that, but rarely as their own independent entities, separate from the rest of the franchise.
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Old February 24 2013, 08:14 AM   #70
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Jan wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post
Hold on ... didn't Dukhat come later in B5? I thought he was retconned into B5 early history in the movie In The Beginning.
Not at all. He was mentioned as early as 'Soul Hunter', episode 102, and again in several other episodes (A Voice in the Wilderness, A Late Delivery from Avalon, Severed Dreams, Babylon Squared and Atonement).

Jan
True, though because of the 1 year delay in the production for B5 Season 1, "Soul Hunter" wasn't produced until well after the character Dukat appeared in DS9's premiere.
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Old February 24 2013, 08:21 AM   #71
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Yes, Paramount most likely was moved by the B5 pitch to make the next Trek show set on a space station. But that's inspiration, not "stealing."
So much so that rather than wait for The Next Generation to finish they came out two years early.

Just in case Babylon 5 was any good.



(I personally don't care about the scenario, I'm just sayin'..)
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Old February 24 2013, 08:37 AM   #72
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

^ Eh, that's not so unusual for spinoffs. See: Angel, Xena, Torchwood, various procedurals for example.




This is such a dumb "feud."
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Old February 24 2013, 02:44 PM   #73
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

I'm pretty sure Dukhat was part of the original proposal of B5 so he was created in the mid 80s.
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Old February 24 2013, 04:17 PM   #74
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure Dukhat was part of the original proposal of B5 so he was created in the mid 80s.
But in DS9, he was really only called Dukat to avoid paying royalties for using a previously used gul names.
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Old February 24 2013, 05:03 PM   #75
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.
Oh, jms freely admits that as his main inspiration. LotR and, I think, Arthurian legend. Or was it Greek mythology
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