The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

[chrisspringob]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Why should I care if some show steals from another? That's for the lawyers to sort out.

Perhaps we shouldn't care. Of course, our perspective as fans is likely to be different from those of the creators themselves. When answering the question "so what?" if DS9 stole from him, JMS wrote this back when both shows were on the air:

http://jmsnews.com/thread.aspx?id=_D...?&topic=comics

If we allow for the moment, just the moment and no more, that perhaps it did happen as I and others think it might have happened...that Paramount influenced the development of DS9 to co-opt B5....

Imagine that you have just spent five years building a custom car. And before you can even take it out of the garage, someone nabs it. And every day thereafter, they drive it up and down your street, and everyone talks about what a great car it is, and how the other car you still have is okay, and should't we be happy that the neighborhood has *both* cars to look at?

And if you commented on it, and someone told you, "so what?" I wonder what your reaction would be.

[Turtletrekker]

I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.

[Nerys Myk]

JoeD80 wrote:

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I think Hopstaken's timeline is a little off. Babylon 5 was already in its first season when the Chris-Craft stations decided to pull out of PTEN and form the core of UPN.

Also I dont recall DS9 being affiliated with PTEN, it was a syndicated show that was shown on independent stations ( some of whom did join WB and UPN) I don't see a mention of Paramount in Wiki about PTEN just Warner Bros and Chris-Craft. Paramount and Warner did join forces to form the CW, but that was a few years later. And Star Trek Voyager was the show that launched UPN. Maybe the post's author is conflating several events?

[Nerys Myk]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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I always thought that B5 had more in common with Lord of the Rings than DS9.

Hey if you're gonna steal, steal from the best.

[RandyS]

ManOnTheWave wrote:

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Likewise both series involve the use of a small prototype ship post first season, and using the station(s) to coordinate large fleets of different races against a threat coming from far away. Not trying to stoke a flame war, but the similarities between the shows go much further than the pilot episodes.

Yes they do, but I still maintain that both are good, and it doesn't matter which came first, or whatever the legal ramifications are. For us, the fans, it was a win-win situation.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Robert Maxwell wrote:

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JMS pitched B5 to Paramount. Paramount declined. Shortly after, DS9 was announced.

People who think DS9 is a ripoff simply because it used a space station setting like B5 need to get over it. Other than being space station based, they have little in common.

So what if Paramount was pitched B5, liked the space station setting, and decided to use it for their next Trek show? No one owns such broad concepts, and it makes B5 fans look petulant to still be on about this almost 20 years later.

Berman and Piller, who actually conceived and developed DS9, had a very different recollection of how it came to be and didn't much appreciate jms's speculations.

Faced with the high media-profile announcement of a sequel series to the extraordinarily popular ST:TNG at a time when B5 was barely greenlighted as a TV movie, Straczynski clearly comprehended the dangers of people coming away with the mistaken impression that B5 was lifted from DS9, and getting the "we were first" story out there seems to have been pretty important.

[CorporalCaptain]

I eagerly await the verdict in the lawsuit.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

[Sindatur]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Also I dont recall DS9 being affiliated with PTEN, it was a syndicated show that was shown on independent stations ( some of whom did join WB and UPN) I don't see a mention of Paramount in Wiki about PTEN just Warner Bros and Chris-Craft. Paramount and Warner did join forces to form the CW, but that was a few years later. And Star Trek Voyager was the show that launched UPN. Maybe the post's author is conflating several events?

DS9 and B5 were back to back on Wednesday nights on my PTEN Station, which eventually became UPN for Voyager. B5 was carried on PTEN Stations, WB Stations, and I believe some still independent ones.

[Nerys Myk]

Sindatur wrote:

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DS9 and B5 were back to back on Wednesday nights on my PTEN Station, which eventually became UPN for Voyager. B5 was carried on PTEN Stations, WB Stations, and I believe some still independent ones.

Yeah, I saw DS9 on Channel 44 in the SF Bay Area which would become a UPN station ( and later the CW), but I think it was also on Channel 11 which at the time was an ABC affiliate. So I don't think it was part of the PTEN slate.

[Sindatur]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Yeah, I saw DS9 on Channel 44 in the SF Bay Area which would become a UPN station ( and later the CW), but I think it was also on Channel 11 which at the time was an ABC affiliate. So I don't think it was part of the PTEN slate.

Yea, KBHK was what I was talking about as well. Was DS9 carried on 11 as well? I don't remember that, was that the weekend airing? (KBHK CH44, I believe was carried on Ch12, though)

[Nerys Myk]

Sindatur wrote:

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Yea, KBHK was what I was talking about as well. Was DS9 carried on 11 as well? I don't remember that, was that the weekend airing? (KBHK CH44, I believe was carried on Ch12, though)

Might have been. IIRC, DS9 was shown before or after the PTEN block, which is why it was back to back with B5.

[JoeD80]

DS9 was straight syndication, so it was often on stations with PTEN shows, because PTEN only had 4 hours a week of programming at its max. If you saw Voyager on that station it was likely one of the Chris-Craft ones. Chris-Craft itself had put up a lot of money for season one; in season two the stations themselves had to make up that difference when the company backed UPN instead. A lot of other independent stations were added at that time. Since UPN and WB didn't have full week schedules at the time either it was possible to see all the UPN/PTEN/WB shows mixed on the same channel.

[Forbin]

Hard to remember, but I think B5 was initially on NY channel 9 (WOR), which eventually became UPN. DS9 was always on NY channel 11 (WNEW), which became the WB.

[The Borgified Corpse]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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The phenomenon of TV copying each other is well known. Last year there were two Beauty & the Beast shows in contention. Serial killers seem to be the big thing this year. For next season, there are two shows where the gimmick is that Dracula, Frankenstein et al are in the same story.

Then there's all the various fairy tale/mythology/fantasy shows around right now, what with Grimm, Once upon a Time, and Lost Girl.

What I'm curious about is: If DS9 did co-opt any of B5, what was the ultimate harm, if any? Were there any specific ideas that JMS wanted to use on B5 that he was forced to abandon because DS9 beat him to the punch? If not, I don't see what the big deal is. Both shows had very long runs.

And if it's any consolation, this summer the Phoenix ComicCon is having a huge Babylon 5 20th anniversary cast reunion. OTOH, no one seems to give a crap about DS9's 20th. The only DS9 actors we've ever gotten here in Phoenix are Michael Dorn (kinda doesn't count) and Chase Masterson. (I miss Chase Masterson. She flirted with me. I know it was merely professional flirting to try to get me to buy her movie and her CD, but still... damn.)