Inner Light and other alternate reality episodes

[Dale Sams]

I only want to chime in on a common nitpick of the episode...that after 30 years of living an alternate life, Picard shouldn't be able to remember how to fix a stopped up toilet, nevertheless run a starship: I can only assume that the probe was designed to prevent such things....as opposed to what happened to O'Brien later down the line.

[BillJ]

Tiberius wrote:

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I'm curious as to why you disregard the points I made.

There is no disregard. I simply find it one of the dullest hours of Trek. The meat of the episode is dull and Riker is an idiot. The episode completely misses that Picard is mind-raped (yet again) and we get yet another episode where all of Kamen's closest friends and associates are white.

Not everyone is going to like the same episodes that you do...

[RAMA]

BillJ wrote:

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Not everyone is going to like the same episodes that you do...

Nope, but we can still disagree with you too.

[T'Girl]

Tiberius wrote:

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TIL isn't an episode where Picard watches a movie for 40 minutes.

How do you figure? Picard had no control of his actions.

It's an episode where he gets to live the life that was always denied to him, he gets to have a family, a wife, children, acting as a member of a community, not as the leader of that community.

Not even close. Picard had no control of his own destiny. He couldn't say leave the village and wonder the world. The life he had downloaded into him require him to stay in the village. He could not select any woman who would have him, the woman who was his wife was a part of the download. As were "his" children.

Not knowing the time period he was in, did he try to contact Starfleet? Given the technology to implant memories in a different species, the technology for a subspace communication device should have been available too. Problem is, unless that was part of the download Picard wouldn't have been physically able to do it. Did he try to contact the planet's leaders, the authorities?

How many time did Picard say "Okay, I'm not going to play," until eventually the environment of the download simply broke him down.

The life he alway wanted to live, but was deigned? Picard was treated like an animal.

The Squire of Gothos wrote:

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It makes me wish for a fan edit of Inner Light that takes away the bits on the bridge

Or better still. a fan edit that removed all the events upon the planet, and just has a 42 minute episode consisting of Picard laying on the bridge carpeting, with people endlessly having too stepping over him.

[Tiberius]

T'Girl wrote:

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How do you figure? Picard had no control of his actions.

And yet we saw him try to exit the holodeck, treat his wife with suspicion at first, try to access interstellar communications, teach his children about astronomy and come up with scientific ideas to save the village. That sounds like Picard to me!

Not even close. Picard had no control of his own destiny. He couldn't say leave the village and wonder the world. The life he had downloaded into him require him to stay in the village. He could not select any woman who would have him, the woman who was his wife was a part of the download. As were "his" children.

Yes he did. He went out for days, to the point where his wife got worried about him. And he encouraged his daughter to do the same.

Not knowing the time period he was in, did he try to contact Starfleet? Given the technology to implant memories in a different species, the technology for a subspace communication device should have been available too. Problem is, unless that was part of the download Picard wouldn't have been physically able to do it. Did he try to contact the planet's leaders, the authorities?

Again, yes, to both counts.

How many time did Picard say "Okay, I'm not going to play," until eventually the environment of the download simply broke him down.

How do you know the program would have broken at that point?

The life he alway wanted to live, but was deigned? Picard was treated like an animal.

No he wasn't. Granted, it was a drastic thing, but he was given a huge amount of choice.

[BillJ]

Tiberius wrote:

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Granted, it was a drastic thing, but he was given a huge amount of choice.

No he wasn't. He was forced to play out the program until it ended.

[yousirname]

I never really thought about it, but that is a bit disturbing, actually. I mean, it sure is lucky that Picard's the kind of guy who can ultimately handle it. Someone else might have gone nuts and killed themselves - assuming that would even be possible in the program.

[T'Girl]

yousirname wrote:

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Someone else might have gone nuts and killed themselves

I hadn't thought of that, what would happen? Would Picard reset back to the beginning of the download and have to live everything all over again. Or regardless of the method of suicide (let's pretend it was explosives) does he just continue on as if nothing happen.

He can't actually die, because he is safe and sound lying on the floor of the bridge.

Maybe if he killed himself in the download, he'd simply wake up.

[Captain McBain]

T'Girl wrote:

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I hadn't thought of that, what would happen? Would Picard reset back to the beginning of the download and have to live everything all over again. Or regardless of the method of suicide (let's pretend it was explosives) does he just continue on as if nothing happen.

He can't actually die, because he is safe and sound lying on the floor of the bridge.

Maybe if he killed himself in the download, he'd simply wake up.

When the Enterprise cut off the beam, Picard almost died as a result. It's possible that if Picard tried to commit suicide on the planet that the beam would be interrupted, and Picard would go into cardiac arrest. Do you find this plausible?

[Tiberius]

BillJ wrote:

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No he wasn't. He was forced to play out the program until it ended.

Sorry. I just don't see it. He was able to raise his daughter to be a scientist and was able to use the leadership skills he'd developed in the real world as a part of that community.

Sure, he didn't have the choice to leave, but that's a far cry from saying he had no choice whatsoever. He had a huge amount of choice. He was not just playing a prepared script. The fact that the first thing he does is call for the holodeck program to end is proof of that.

[Mojochi]

There's been a slight misconception in here about what alternate reality means. Parallels, Remember Me, & Yesterday's Enterprise are really the only true alternate reality TNG episodes. Although Time Squared has elements of alternate reality in it

The Inner Light, Frame of Mind, Eye Of The Beholder, Interface, The Mind's Eye, & The Battle, are all either set in or contain elements of existing in an altered mind state. Dark Page, Night Terrors, Violations, & perhaps Phantasms could also be categorized that way

Future Imperfect, & most Q episodes like Qpid, Hide & Q, All Good Things... & especially Tapestry are all debatable, because there's the illusion of plains of existence occurring, but it's realness is subject to question, based on the powers of those creating it. For all we know, Future Imperfect is really just an episode centering around a very intuitive holodeck type phenomena, & Tapestry might just be Picard having an "It's a Wonderful Life" dream, & even if it is a Q creation, how real it is we don't know.

Where No One Has Gone Before is open to debate too. That's a stumper, because there's verifiable divergences occurring in reality, but their realness is questionable

[Mojochi]

Tiberius wrote:

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Sorry. I just don't see it. He was able to raise his daughter to be a scientist and was able to use the leadership skills he'd developed in the real world as a part of that community.

Sure, he didn't have the choice to leave, but that's a far cry from saying he had no choice whatsoever. He had a huge amount of choice. He was not just playing a prepared script. The fact that the first thing he does is call for the holodeck program to end is proof of that.

I agree, but it's also true that the condition had perimeters within which he could not escape. He had free will to carve out whatever existence he chose on that planet, but within confines that's purpose was to force him to become invested in a life there, & then witness the buildup to its demise, such that he'd value their existence with more than just a bystander's perspective. With all that time & his knowledge, he probably could have built a method to move a vast portion of the populace off the planet in time, but that's not the point of the program

It is a program & he had to exist within its confines, even as liberal as they were in allowing him to actively contribute to his state

[T'Girl]

Tiberius wrote:

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Sorry. I just don't see it. He was able to raise his daughter to be a scientist and was able to use the leadership skills he'd developed in the real world as a part of that community.

But the download programmed Picard to have a family, to be part of the community. The intent was that someone, whoever, the probe encountered would experience the loss of the species after their extinction.

If Riker had been the one to initially communicate with the probe, he would have raised a child who became a scientist, he would have had the same woman as his wife, he would have lived his years as a captive in that very same village.

The same with anyone (except possibly Data) who tried to talk to the probe.

It was all a pre-programmed mind rape.

[yousirname]

Well as someone said, Picard calls for the holodeck pretty early on. That was hardly programmed in. So there must be freedom within the system's boundaries. As an extreme example, if Picard murdered his daughter, she wouldn't become a scientist, no? The point being that there are possible outcomes that don't involve the outcomes we saw in the episode.

[Mojochi]

The only preprogrammed things were what the probe interfacing person awoke to, the wife, the friend, & the community. From that point on, the life is theirs to live, within boundaries. Had it been Worf, would the daughter have been a scientist? Doubtful

It's feasible another person wouldn't have had a family & gotten a divorce instead