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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old February 23 2013, 07:49 PM   #1
theblitz
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Sorrows of the Empire

I just finished reading Glass Empires including Sorrows of the Empire.
Time to read next book?

So, how come it is also Sorrows of the Empire and it is the same story (from what I can see at the beginning).
I realise it is much longer.

Does it have that much extra in it so as to make it a worthwhile read or should I skip it?

Of course, no spoilers please.
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Old February 23 2013, 07:51 PM   #2
Thrawn
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

It's about twice as long as the original version from Glass Empires. I would have recommended skipping the Glass Empires version and reading the expanded one instead; too late for that, I guess. There's lots of good stuff that's added, though, you might want to read the expanded one anyway.
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Old February 23 2013, 08:12 PM   #3
BillJ
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

I've read both and they're both excellent reads and well worth the time.
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Old February 23 2013, 08:50 PM   #4
Defcon
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

theblitz wrote: View Post
I just finished reading Glass Empires including Sorrows of the Empire.
Time to read next book?

So, how come it is also Sorrows of the Empire and it is the same story (from what I can see at the beginning).
I realise it is much longer.

Does it have that much extra in it so as to make it a worthwhile read or should I skip it?

Of course, no spoilers please.
From an interview I did with David Mack a bit over three years ago:

The fact that the novel is an expansion of an existing story might lead to scepticism amongst readers as to whether the new version is worth buying. What, in David’s opinion, makes the new Sorrows a worthwhile read? “The first reason is that the new novel is more than twice the length of the original, clocking in at around 92,000 words.” But quantity isn’t everything, so David has made sure to improve the existing material, too. “In the course of adding new material, mostly in the form of new chapters, I have also taken the opportunity to streamline much of the original work. In some cases this was done to mesh old and new material; in other cases I was addressing stylistic issues, tweaking my word choices, or otherwise applying the lessons I have learned in the last few years since I wrote the original.”


The expansion has also given him the chance to explore some plot elements and characters which were sidelined in the short novel in more depth. “I’ve plumbed deeper into characters other than Spock,” he reveals, “and I’ve detailed at least one event from each of the 28 years spanned by the story. Marlena’s point of view is given greater examination, and I’ve worked to better integrate the characters who previously had made only cameos – in particular, Saavik and, to a lesser degree, T’Prynn from the Vanguard series.”
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Old February 23 2013, 09:16 PM   #5
David Mack
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

^ Yeah, what he said.

And the book's title is The Sorrows of Empire. Every time someone gets it wrong, I curse his/her name. Just FYI.
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Old February 23 2013, 10:38 PM   #6
Sci
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

I always liked that title. "The Sorrows of Empire," sans "the," changes the meaning; it becomes about the sorrows of imperialism as a system rather than about the Terran Empire itself as a particular entity.
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Old February 24 2013, 12:57 PM   #7
theblitz
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

I'm considering skipping it for the moment and then coming back some other time for a re-read.
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Old February 24 2013, 07:57 PM   #8
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

Sci wrote: View Post
I always liked that title. "The Sorrows of Empire," sans "the," changes the meaning; it becomes about the sorrows of imperialism as a system rather than about the Terran Empire itself as a particular entity.
I borrowed it from a nonfiction political tome by Chalmers Johnson, which is itself worth a read when one has time.
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Old February 24 2013, 08:20 PM   #9
WesleysDisciple
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

wait, the stand alone novel is EXPANDED

didnt know that or or woudl have bought it first time I saw it

was thinking it would be the first in a series of indepeendent publications... but no such luck...
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Old February 24 2013, 08:44 PM   #10
BillJ
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
wait, the stand alone novel is EXPANDED

didnt know that or or woudl have bought it first time I saw it

was thinking it would be the first in a series of indepeendent publications... but no such luck...
There is a follow up novel called Rise Like Lions.
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Old February 24 2013, 09:05 PM   #11
Sci
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

David Mack wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I always liked that title. "The Sorrows of Empire," sans "the," changes the meaning; it becomes about the sorrows of imperialism as a system rather than about the Terran Empire itself as a particular entity.
I borrowed it from a nonfiction political tome by Chalmers Johnson, which is itself worth a read when one has time.
This one?

In the words of Spock: "Fascinating."

The Sorrows of Empire Back Cover wrote:
In the years after the Soviet Union imploded, the United States was described first as the globe's "lone superpower," then as a "reluctant sheriff," next as the "indispensable nation," and in the wake of 9/11, as a "New Rome." In this important national bestseller, Chalmers Johnson thoroughly explores the new militarism that is transforming America and compelling us to pick up the burden of empire.

Recalling the classic warnings against militarism -- from George Washington's Farewell Address to Dwight Eisenhower's denunciation of the military-industrial complex -- Johnson uncovers its roots deep in our past. Turning to the present, he maps America's expanding empire of military bases and the vast web of services that support them. He offers a vivid look at the new caste of professional militarists who have infiltrated multiple branches of government, who classify as "secret" everything they do, and for whom the manipulation of the military budget is of vital interest.

Among Johnson's provocative conclusions is that American militarism is already putting an end to the age of globalization and bankrupting the United States, even as it creates the conditions for a new century of virulent blowback. "The Sorrows of Empire" suggests that the former American republic has already crossed its Rubicon-with the Pentagon in the lead.
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Old February 24 2013, 10:25 PM   #12
E-DUB
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

Open spoliers ahead for TSOE

I greatly enjoyed "Sorrows" and was kind of sorry after reading the short version that the critical events in the MU timeline were not given the "full novel" treatment. Then the "expanded" version came out and WHOA.








Hey, any story that starts with Kirk being strangled..........
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Old February 24 2013, 10:42 PM   #13
David Mack
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

Sci wrote: View Post
This one?

In the words of Spock: "Fascinating."
Yup, that's the one. It's a sobering read.
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Old February 26 2013, 08:49 AM   #14
theblitz
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

E-DUB wrote: View Post
Open spoliers ahead for TSOE

I greatly enjoyed "Sorrows" and was kind of sorry after reading the short version that the critical events in the MU timeline were not given the "full novel" treatment.
I know exactly what you mean.

Was annoying how it skipped years at a time and you had to guess what had happened by using the next stage of the narrative.

Still, I have skipped the long version for now and will come back to it when I finish the whole arc.

New question:

I am now reading the next book: Obsidian Alliances.
The second story (Cutting Ties) is based on characters from New Frontier.
Is not knowing that series going to screw-up the read?
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Old February 26 2013, 06:43 PM   #15
Thrawn
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Re: Sorrows of the Empire

Knowing those characters adds an extra dimension, since you see how different everything really is, but I think it's a pretty fine story even with no NF knowledge.
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