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Old February 22 2013, 07:43 PM   #31
davejames
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

It's very likely that B5 probably inspired the idea of setting the next Trek series on a space station in the first place.... but other than that, I have a hard time seeing any similarities between the two.

Heck, as far as I'm concerned (judging from the B5 pilot at least), Paramount only improved on the idea in every possible way-- with better writing, more action, a cooler station, and more charming and dynamic characters.
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Old February 22 2013, 07:50 PM   #32
Jan
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Takeru wrote: View Post
...what parts of the Babylon 5 pilot script were copied by Paramount?
I know I'm going to regret this but perhaps this would help since you're so insistant:

JMS wrote:
Re: the "stupid thread," and the "effective end of similarity" being that
the two shows were set on space stations...oh, you mean absent the fact that
the two shows both were helmed by commander ranked officers who had survived
major and emotionally devastating battles, both had female seconds-in-command,
both had a shapeshifter in their pilots, both had the female second leading a
counter-attack to a massive attack in that same pilot, and a lot of other
stuff in common....oh, you mean absent all THAT it's the "effective end of
similarity." Gotcha.
Then we can look at character name similarities such as Dukhat / Dukat and Lyta / Leeta

Note, however, that JMS has always steadfastly maintained that the ones directly involved with the show never would have done anything dishonorable and that any steering toward similar elements would have come from the development people.

Now then...does anybody else find it sad that this ancient fued has more posts than the 20th anniversary celebration thread?

Jan
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Old February 22 2013, 07:52 PM   #33
Sean_McCormick
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

My understanding of that quote is not, that lines or scenes from the finished script for the pilot were copied, but concepts and themes from the pitch. As i said before, many of the themes that form early B5 also are at the core of early DS9.
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Old February 22 2013, 07:56 PM   #34
Temis the Vorta
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

JMS should stop posting on Facebook and start getting a new space opera show on TV.
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Old February 22 2013, 08:02 PM   #35
Sean_McCormick
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

That we all can agree on.
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Old February 22 2013, 08:05 PM   #36
Temis the Vorta
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Now I'll disagree with myself...I should have said Netflix or Amazon, not "TV." That's where space opera has a real shot.
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Old February 22 2013, 08:19 PM   #37
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
JMS pitched B5 to Paramount. Paramount declined. Shortly after, DS9 was announced.

People who think DS9 is a ripoff simply because it used a space station setting like B5 need to get over it. Other than being space station based, they have little in common.

So what if Paramount was pitched B5, liked the space station setting, and decided to use it for their next Trek show? No one owns such broad concepts, and it makes B5 fans look petulant to still be on about this almost 20 years later.
Agreed. I liked both then, I like both now.

Speaking for myself, that's all that matters.
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Old February 22 2013, 09:02 PM   #38
Forbin
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Takeru wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
Oh is THAT how this is supposed to work?
Uh ... yes, that's how it's supposed to work.

But you already know that, this is just a lame attempt to evade answering a simple question, what parts of the Babylon 5 pilot script were copied by Paramount?
I'm making this really easy for you, I'm not even asking for evidence, just a simple list of what was reused.
Dude, I posted an interesting article and stated no viewpoint. You're the one having a hissy fit. It's not up to me to defend or promote anything.

Here's another interesting article:
http://io9.com/5985727/the-strange-s...n-of-babylon-5
jms mentions his initial reaction to what he perceived as similarities in the section "the other show."

I present this as historical information only.
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Old February 22 2013, 10:04 PM   #39
Temis the Vorta
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

The phenomenon of TV copying each other is well known. Last year there were two Beauty & the Beast shows in contention. Serial killers seem to be the big thing this year. For next season, there are two shows where the gimmick is that Dracula, Frankenstein et al are in the same story.

If only there were so many space operas bumping heads that they were copying each other or seeming to. Why should I care if some show steals from another? That's for the lawyers to sort out. If they got a case, go for it. The fact that nobody is suing right now is proof that there's not enough of a case to interest a lawyer because in California, there are so many lawyers per capita that they'll jump on any vaguely viable case like hungry hyenas.
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Old February 22 2013, 10:35 PM   #40
Takeru
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Forbin wrote: View Post
Dude, I posted an interesting article and stated no viewpoint. You're the one having a hissy fit. It's not up to me to defend or promote anything.
I'm not having a hissy fit, but you at least implied a viewpoint when you started talking about evidence. I just asked you to back that up.

I present this as historical information only.
Yeah right, that's why you posted this:

Forbin wrote: View Post
Ah, the internet. "The evidence isn't what I want to hear, therefore the poster is full of shit and not who he says he is!"
And just for the record, calling this stuff historical information is stating a viewpoint. Believe what you want, but don't act like you're a historian when you're obviouly shit stirring.


@Jan: I've heard most of those similarities before, but those are really superficial, they aren't even really similar if you look at the execution of those ideas.
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Old February 22 2013, 11:03 PM   #41
Jan
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Takeru wrote: View Post
@Jan: I've heard most of those similarities before, but those are really superficial, they aren't even really similar if you look at the execution of those ideas.
Perhaps. But don't think for a moment that they weren't enough to almost kill the show.

Jan
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Old February 22 2013, 11:15 PM   #42
Sindatur
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

First let me state, again, I don't care about the who stole from who thing, DS9 and B5 are my two all time favorite shows, s, this is merely a curiosity, because it is an incredible coincidence

Sheridan took his Sunday Drive to Meet Lorien (Aired in November 1998, but, was ready to be aird a year earlier at the end of S4, until TNT saved the show for a S5)
Sisko took a Sunday Dive to hang out with his mother (Aire May 1999)

Did JMS pitch enough about the futur story plans to hint at the ending to his arc? I know his original idea was much different as to the end game for Babylon 5

This is not an attempt to stir up anything, or provide proof of anything, it's just a curiosity, since Sisko ws pretty much set up for his end of Arc with the pilot, and it was pretty similar to the end of Sheridan's arc.
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Old February 22 2013, 11:23 PM   #43
ManOnTheWave
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Sindatur wrote: View Post
First let me state, again, I don't care about the who stole from who thing, DS9 and B5 are my two all time favorite shows, s, this is merely a curiosity, because it is an incredible coincidence

Sheridan took his Sunday Drive to Meet Lorien (Aired in November 1998, but, was ready to be aird a year earlier at the end of S4, until TNT saved the show for a S5)
Sisko took a Sunday Dive to hang out with his mother (Aire May 1999)

Did JMS pitch enough about the futur story plans to hint at the ending to his arc? I know his original idea was much different as to the end game for Babylon 5

This is not an attempt to stir up anything, or provide proof of anything, it's just a curiosity, since Sisko ws pretty much set up for his end of Arc with the pilot, and it was pretty similar to the end of Sheridan's arc.
Likewise both series involve the use of a small prototype ship post first season, and using the station(s) to coordinate large fleets of different races against a threat coming from far away. Not trying to stoke a flame war, but the similarities between the shows go much further than the pilot episodes.
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Old February 22 2013, 11:40 PM   #44
Sean_McCormick
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Takeru wrote: View Post
[...]
@Jan: I've heard most of those similarities before, but those are really superficial, they aren't even really similar if you look at the execution of those ideas.
With that i fully agree, those are only superficial and in the end not important.

I'm surprised that those are the points, jms used to make his case while there are (or at least so it seems to me) much bigger issues of the themes i mentioned previously, which are important to the initial situation of B5 and also are at the core of DS9 before the Dominion arc was introduced.
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Old February 23 2013, 12:16 AM   #45
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The phenomenon of TV copying each other is well known. Last year there were two Beauty & the Beast shows in contention. Serial killers seem to be the big thing this year. For next season, there are two shows where the gimmick is that Dracula, Frankenstein et al are in the same story.
And of course there's the Canadian series Cold Squad which somehow gave birth to the American series Cold Case. Although in that case, the makers of the original show actively considered SUING those who made the 'other' (but did not actually do it).
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