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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate the comics
Excellent 5 14.71%
Above Average 13 38.24%
Average 10 29.41%
Below Average 2 5.88%
Poor 4 11.76%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 21 2013, 10:52 PM   #151
veritech
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Caretaker wrote: View Post
Okay, just read the digital version of the issue two. Not to bad - based on the leaked plot summary of STID, I think I am now seeing where this is going (and it's beginning to feel a lot more like the movie prequel ala the earlier Countdown that I had been expecting). Enjoyable.

Also, ignore my earlier theorizing about April's Enterprise - I had based those only on the five page preview.
Where did you see a leaked plot summary?
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Old February 21 2013, 11:45 PM   #152
ChristopherPike
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

King Daniel wrote: View Post
From Trekmovie.com, shortly after the release of the 2009 movie:

GaryS: Was the timeline that Nero visited the original past up to the point that George Kirk is killed? Or was it always an alternate timeline because Nero was destined to travel there?

BobOrci: We think of it is as identical to the original until Nero arrives.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/22/orci...kmovie-fan-qa/

It's possible they've changed their minds since then...
Somebody should ask that question over there, and see if they get an answer. Whether writing Star Trek Into Darkness has forced them to backtrack, in order to make the story they want to tell work.
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Old February 22 2013, 12:02 AM   #153
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

I agree with the above posts. They will tell comics stories and movies that they want and ignore the pre 2233 timeline.
I see no problem with that as long as they given up the altered timeline explanation or belief in MWI.
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Old February 22 2013, 12:33 AM   #154
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

You might want to find out what the above poster believes, before agreeing with them.

I'm happier that they DO try to adhere to things established before 2233 in the timeline. But every so often, I see evidence that both supports (Vulcan ringships, a design taken from ENT) and goes against (the Valliant described as a Starfleet vessel before the organisation existed, probably UESPA in the late 21st Century and rumours that they want Gorn to be from another galaxy for no significant reason that I can see etc).

But it's their call to make... whether or not the universe Nero arrived in, was identical to the Prime Universe up until the Kelvin was destroyed. Comic continuity has always been all over the shop anyway, but if it's intended to feel joined up with the new movies explaining backstory that will whizz by quickly or not figure into a two-hour movie, I wish just that little extra effort were put in.

So far, it seems to be dancing around any plot of substance. I'm seeing the original Countdown as being the better prequel comic... but I'm admittedly biased, what with it featuring Nero coming into conflict with TNG characters and well-established starship designs! And his grievance, the destruction of Romulus, setting the scene for the film. By comparison, Countdown to Darkness is all rather opaque and impenetrable for clues about what is to come. I'm betting it's mostly all red-herrings.

Shame Countdown didn't get made into an animated adventure, featuring the voices of the Next Generation crew... It still holds up very well in my memory and in some ways, like a whole missing film.
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Old February 22 2013, 12:56 AM   #155
Therin of Andor
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Vulcan ringships, a design taken from ENT
The ringship that was eventually designated a Vulcan design by ENT appears on the rec deck of the USS Enterprise in ST:TMP. As one of the previous vessels that bore the Enterprise name.

"... the very first starship U.S.S. Enterprise (never seen on television, but according to Gene Roddenberry, who supplied the sketch, it is a forerunner to the vessel we all know)" - Susan Sackett, The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

rumours that they want Gorn to be from another galaxy for no significant reason that I can see
There's nothing in canon that says they can't be from another galaxy.

I wish just that little extra effort were put in.
You and I have no idea how much "effort" was put in. And since when has ST ever stymied itself by refusing to massage canon a little in the interest of the creators telling what they believe is the best possible story?
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Old February 22 2013, 01:26 AM   #156
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Is that your full defensive capability then, Therin? You're enjoying the Nu-Trek comics more than me.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Vulcan ringships, a design taken from ENT
The ringship that was eventually designated a Vulcan design by ENT appears on the rec deck of the USS Enterprise in ST:TMP. As one of the previous vessels that bore the Enterprise name.
I know all that... But I'm talking specifically about Vulcan scoutships and cruisers lifted wholesale directly from ENT a while back. Same colour. Same shape. Ship designs different enough (in my eyes) from a piece of artwork seen onscreen a fraction of their screentime. A piece of set decoration showing the XCV-330 twin-wheel with a thin projectile like needle running down the centre. And I know of no specific time that previous Enterprise shown on the rec deck, was rebranded a Vulcan ship. It appeared on the wall of the 602 Club among other human created spaceflight achievements.

There's nothing in canon that says they can't be from another galaxy.
See a comment I made a page or so back. It very much depends when they are have supposed to have arrived. It's obviously impossible for hints about Gorn to be dropped by other alien cultures like the Orions, let alone appear in a Mirror Universe, a hundred years before they first exit a wormhole or whatever.

It just seems more of a Star Wars riff, than anybody ingrained in Star Trek lore would come up with... where Kelvans from Andromeda aside, pesky alien threats are diverse enough right here, within our own galaxy.

Last edited by ChristopherPike; February 22 2013 at 02:25 AM.
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Old February 22 2013, 02:16 AM   #157
Nightowl1701
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Caretaker wrote: View Post
Okay, just read the digital version of the issue two. Not too bad - based on the leaked plot summary of STID, I think I am now seeing where this is going (and it's beginning to feel a lot more like the movie prequel ala the earlier Countdown that I had been expecting). Enjoyable.
I think I'm starting to see it too. Annoying detailing aside, the basic lines of April's Enterprise (inside and out) match the classic starship we know and love much more than the Abramsprise does. And it's only been out of service for two years, with its' former XO/commander (Peter Weller's character in the film, apparently) now in the Admiralty...

The big space battle (over Earth) of Into Darkness = Kirk's Enterprise vs. April's Enterprise. I'm calling it now.
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Old February 22 2013, 02:33 AM   #158
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
The big space battle (over Earth) of Into Darkness = Kirk's Enterprise vs. April's Enterprise. I'm calling it now.
Now that's something I'd love to see. They wanted two Enterprises to be locked in combat for Generations, but that's more difficult when Kirk and Picard are both heroes. What I sadly think sinks this possibility is... wouldn't the design of an older Enterprise be a little more pinned down? Detailed? It's just the Abramsverse exterior with smaller nacelles. Up there on the big screen, they'd need to be different from each other. Like the Reliant is not the same configuration the Enterprise is. That's the hero ship and that's the villainous one. If they look very similar, then that's confusing except for fans. The Narada appeared fully formed in the previous Countdown by this stage because people working in the film's art dept had finalised its appearance. It strikes me the artists working on this comic haven't been given enough reference material for that ship or an actual actor playing Robert April for this to be very important.

Maybe there wasn't enough leadtime and the artists had to work by written descriptions alone or maybe we can expect neither to feature onscreen during Star Trek Into Darkness.

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Old February 22 2013, 03:44 AM   #159
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
What I sadly think sinks this possibility is... wouldn't the design of an older Enterprise be a little more pinned down? Detailed? It's just the Abramsverse exterior with smaller nacelles.

Not if you're wanting its' appearance on-screen to be a total jawdropping surprise to everyone and only have them realize after the fact that it was totally set-up. Having it be ultra-detailed on the comic page (the way the Narada was) would give away that "holy shit, we're gonna see this in the movie!" (And look earlier in the issue - the Abramsprise ain't too detailed in this comic either.)


ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Up there on the big screen, they'd need to be different from each other. Like the Reliant is not the same configuration the Enterprise is. That's the hero ship and that's the villainous one. If they look very similar, then that's confusing except for fans.

If my guess is correct, April's Enterprise onscreen is gonna look a lot more like the classic 60's ship (or perhaps a TOS/TMP hybrid) than the Abramsprise. There's your difference right there - and a direct answer to the fans who complained that Ryan Church went too far in redesigning the Enterprise. "All right, here's the ship you say you wanted - and the bad guy's in the captain's chair."


ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
It strikes me the artists working on this comic haven't been given enough reference material for that ship or an actual actor playing Robert April to be important.

Again, entirely on purpose - JJ and company wants to keep us guessing ("Is Cumberbatch Khan, April or somebody else?") all the way into our theater seat.
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Old February 22 2013, 05:01 AM   #160
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

^Or, it could be that none of this is going to appear in the movie and the connection is a lot more indirect. The more elaborate the theory, the less likely it is.
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Old February 22 2013, 05:30 AM   #161
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

veritech wrote: View Post
Where did you see a leaked plot summary?
Sorry - I should have phrased that better. I was referring to the PR information Paramount put out (when the name of Cumberbatch's character was released).
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Old February 22 2013, 05:32 AM   #162
Saul
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Trekbbs member King Daniel did post a small screen cap from the trailer of a ship that had the shape of the Enterprise (but wasn't the Enterprise) passing by in the background. Maybe we see old vs new. I can't imagine they would would employ a similar design without some reason.

edit: here's the pic. http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...2&postcount=69
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Old February 22 2013, 07:50 AM   #163
Markonian
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

Fact: A ship with the basic Constitution-class saucer-hull-nacelles configuration can be seen in the trailers. Another ship fitting that basic description is seen in the comics.

Speculation: They are of the same type, presumably a forerunner of the Constitution-class.
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Old February 22 2013, 12:01 PM   #164
F. King Daniel
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
I'm happier that they DO try to adhere to things established before 2233 in the timeline. But every so often, I see evidence that both supports (Vulcan ringships, a design taken from ENT)
Rather awesomely, the Enterprise Vulcan ringship in nuTrek is not just from the comics:
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Old February 22 2013, 12:34 PM   #165
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Re: Countdown to Darkness - Review and Discussion

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Ronald Held wrote: View Post
I have believed that the jjverse was a separate universe before the excursions of Nero and Spock. This seem to evidencecthat it is the caze, coming from Orci.
From Trekmovie.com, shortly after the release of the 2009 movie:

GaryS: Was the timeline that Nero visited the original past up to the point that George Kirk is killed? Or was it always an alternate timeline because Nero was destined to travel there?

BobOrci: We think of it is as identical to the original until Nero arrives.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/22/orci...kmovie-fan-qa/


It's possible they've changed their minds since then...
IIRC, the original idea for the opening of the 2009 movie had April and the original Enterprise being destroyed by Nero rather than Rabau and the Kelvin. It looks like they have resurrected the idea that the Enterprise we are watching in the new films is not the alt.universe counterpart to the original TOS ship, but a successor.
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