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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 17 2013, 03:46 AM   #61
Nerys Myk
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Re: Bones in charge

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Ask yourself this: If the Enterprise is in deep trouble and the usual suspects are trapped down on the planet or incapacitated, who would you rather have in charge on the bridge: Uhura or Chekov?

I know who I'd feel safer with . . ..
To hug? I'll go with Uhura.

Though it is possible Chekov knows more about running the ship than Uhura does. He is the navigator, part-time science and weapons officer and in the command divison. He might scream a bit, but he's never said "Captain, I'm frightened" in a crisis.
But Uhura has never accidentally fallen off an aircraft carrier . . . . .
That's what he gets for trying to be a gentleman.
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Old February 17 2013, 04:48 AM   #62
Nerys Myk
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Re: Bones in charge

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Uhura demonstrated command aptitude in TAS "The Lorelei Signal".
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Uhura demonstrated command aptitude in TAS "The Lorelei Signal".
And, ahem, a certain upcoming Trek novel.
Everyone knows TAS and books aren't canon.
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Old February 17 2013, 04:27 PM   #63
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Re: Bones in charge

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Uhura demonstrated command aptitude in TAS "The Lorelei Signal".
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Uhura demonstrated command aptitude in TAS "The Lorelei Signal".
And, ahem, a certain upcoming Trek novel.
Everyone knows TAS and books aren't canon.
Never stopped me before . . .
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Old February 17 2013, 05:20 PM   #64
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Re: Bones in charge

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Further, I can't see him not handing command over to Spock, Scotty, Sulu, or even Chekov at the first opportunity.
What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.

Uhura initially wore the gold command uniform in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women".
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Old February 17 2013, 05:23 PM   #65
Greg Cox
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Re: Bones in charge

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.

Uhura initially wore the gold command uniform in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women".
Hah! Good point!
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Old February 18 2013, 06:09 AM   #66
Nerys Myk
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Re: Bones in charge

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.

Uhura initially wore the gold command uniform in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women".
Hah! Good point!
Not everyone is cut out for command. It's when you realize that early on.
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Old February 20 2013, 07:03 PM   #67
J.T.B.
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Re: Bones in charge

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Further, I can't see him not handing command over to Spock, Scotty, Sulu, or even Chekov at the first opportunity.
What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.
Except red vs. gold doesn't tell us anything about who can take command. Uhura could be in line in either color.
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Old February 20 2013, 07:15 PM   #68
Greg Cox
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Re: Bones in charge

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.
Except red vs. gold doesn't tell us anything about who can take command. Uhura could be in line in either color.
Heck, Scotty's a redshirt and he takes command all the time.

To be honest, I'm not sure the uniform colors were all that codified back in that day. Charlene Masters was an engineer in "The Alternative Factor," but she wore blue.

(I just went back and forth with a copyeditor on that one. The copyeditor changed her uniform to red, to fit her duties on the ship, and I changed it back to blue to match what we saw on TV.)
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Old February 20 2013, 07:30 PM   #69
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Bones in charge

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Ask yourself this: If the Enterprise is in deep trouble and the usual suspects are trapped down on the planet or incapacitated, who would you rather have in charge on the bridge: Uhura or Chekov?

I know who I'd feel safer with . . ..
To hug? I'll go with Uhura.

Though it is possible Chekov knows more about running the ship than Uhura does. He is the navigator, part-time science and weapons officer and in the command divison. He might scream a bit, but he's never said "Captain, I'm frightened" in a crisis.
But Uhura has never accidentally fallen off an aircraft carrier . . . . .
Becuase he let her beam back with the radiation particles, honestly its the Klingons fault because if their dilithium didn't suck Chekov would have never been in that position.
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Old February 20 2013, 07:41 PM   #70
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Re: Bones in charge

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
To be honest, I'm not sure the uniform colors were all that codified back in that day. Charlene Masters was an engineer in "The Alternative Factor," but she wore blue.

(I just went back and forth with a copyeditor on that one. The copyeditor changed her uniform to red, to fit her duties on the ship, and I changed it back to blue to match what we saw on TV.)
I wonder if educational background would factor into uniform colors. Perhaps her background was in a scientific field related to dilithium crystals, leading her to be sorted into the blueshirts, but would also naturally lead her to be in engineering.
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Old February 20 2013, 08:21 PM   #71
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Re: Bones in charge

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Further, I can't see him not handing command over to Spock, Scotty, Sulu, or even Chekov at the first opportunity.
What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.
Horseshit. Nothing trumps rank.

She's a Lieutenant and he's an Ensign. She outranks him. She's also been on the ship longer, so she's more senior, and she's taken the helm a couple of times in dire emergencies so she's at least as - if not more than - qualified as he is to command the ship.

And before anyone says it, no this does not mean McCoy should get command. Technically he outranks Uhura, but his specialty doesn't make him a bridge officer. Chekov and Uhura are bridge officers because the bridge is where they're qualified to be. Anyone officer qualified to be on the bridge can be trusted with the "conn." That's the point of the qualification. McCoy isn't qualified.
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Old February 21 2013, 07:51 AM   #72
Nerys Myk
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Re: Bones in charge

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

What about Uhura? Surely she would outrank Chekov!
She's a red shirt radio operator. Chekov's a gold shirt commander in training. Position trumps rank.
Horseshit. Nothing trumps rank.

She's a Lieutenant and he's an Ensign. She outranks him. She's also been on the ship longer, so she's more senior, and she's taken the helm a couple of times in dire emergencies so she's at least as - if not more than - qualified as he is to command the ship.

And before anyone says it, no this does not mean McCoy should get command. Technically he outranks Uhura, but his specialty doesn't make him a bridge officer. Chekov and Uhura are bridge officers because the bridge is where they're qualified to be. Anyone officer qualified to be on the bridge can be trusted with the "conn." That's the point of the qualification. McCoy isn't qualified.
Do we really know that, though? I was just joking with Greg, but does a spot on the bridge, be it at helm, science, engineering or communications really mean you're qualified to take command of the ship?

While Uhura (for example only) may have rank and time served over Chekov, does she have the training or even the experience to command the ship in an emergency situation? IIRC, and guys who have served can correct me, if Chekov is placed in command by Kirk, he's pretty much in command even if Uhura out ranks him. To be in command you have to be in the chain of command. If, as a comm officer, Uhura is outside that chain her rank as irrelevant as McCoy's.
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Old February 21 2013, 03:23 PM   #73
J.T.B.
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Re: Bones in charge

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wonder if educational background would factor into uniform colors. Perhaps her background was in a scientific field related to dilithium crystals, leading her to be sorted into the blueshirts, but would also naturally lead her to be in engineering.
Maybe, but you also have to account for astro-biologist Dr. Mulhall in the red division.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Do we really know that, though? I was just joking with Greg, but does a spot on the bridge, be it at helm, science, engineering or communications really mean you're qualified to take command of the ship?

While Uhura (for example only) may have rank and time served over Chekov, does she have the training or even the experience to command the ship in an emergency situation? IIRC, and guys who have served can correct me, if Chekov is placed in command by Kirk, he's pretty much in command even if Uhura out ranks him. To be in command you have to be in the chain of command. If, as a comm officer, Uhura is outside that chain her rank as irrelevant as McCoy's.
Agreed, we don't know. The qualifying distinction seems to be whether one is a line officer, which apparently Scotty is, and McCoy isn't. Whether communications officers would fall under that or not, we don't know, but I would lean toward them being in the line. In the US Navy, at least, officers in a ship's communications department are line officers.

As far as the r/w navy chain of command goes, the assigned CO is first and the assigned XO is next, regardless of rank. After that, the chain descends through the unrestricted line officers in order of rank. Of course in the midst of battle the next-ranking officer may not be immediately available, so the ranking officer who's in position to give immediate orders would be in charge until the more senior officer can be notified and take over. An example would be the USS San Francisco in the 1942 Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, where communications officer LCdr Bruce McCandless took command after the admiral, captain, XO and other senior officers were killed. Even though there was a more senior officer aboard in the engine room, he had his hands full and didn't know till later that command had fallen to him. McCandless was awarded the Medal of Honor.
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