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Old February 20 2013, 01:14 PM   #16
Infern0
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Re: Early starfleet.

I'd be interested to know what came after the NX class.

Constitution class was around 100 years away, so there must have been another flagship class in between.
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Old February 20 2013, 01:16 PM   #17
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Re: Early starfleet.

Infern0 wrote: View Post
I'd be interested to know what came after the NX class.

Constitution class was around 100 years away, so there must have been another flagship class in between.
Probably the Daedulus (sp) class?
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Old February 20 2013, 01:22 PM   #18
Timo
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Re: Early starfleet.

We never really get the impression that the Constitution would have been much of a flagship class. She's just a frontier workhorse, never credited with being the first, the fastest, the biggest or the strongest. (Except for the Enterprise that ultimately gets to hold some speed records but apparently just because godlike aliens throw her around like a rag doll.)

The same goes double for Daedalus: we never hear of this class achieving anything impressive.

In the intervening 100 years, one'd expect to see a dozen frontline types come and go, each of these with numerous kitbashed "sister types". But possibly Archer's ship had already achieved general "interstellar standard" performance, and there would be minimal improvement for the next hundred years. Or the next two hundred, for that matter.

Curiously, NX-01 is retired in 2161 already. Did the type prove to be a disappointment or what? Perhaps the next major type would have been radically different if the NX design indeed failed to pan out.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old February 20 2013, 01:25 PM   #19
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Early starfleet.

We know they had the giant Einstein-class ships, like the USS Kelvin, in the 2230's. And the Kelvin herself looked fairly old and worn out at the start of Star Trek so I imagine it had been in service for awhile.
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Old February 20 2013, 02:09 PM   #20
Guy Gardener
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Re: Early starfleet.

I understand the metaphor now, losing the guy to the job, but when I first heard the term "Starfleet Widows" I thought it was about how the human ships kept blowing up on their launching pads.



Asshole does seem a bit over the top if the conceptualism can be linked to real world concerns.

There are three countries on the planet out of 196 (depending how you count) today who do not belong to the United Nations.

Kosovo

Kosovo declared independence from Serbia on on February 17, 2008 but has not gained complete international recognition to allow it to become a member of the United Nations.

Taiwan

In 1971 the People's Republic of China (mainland China) replaced Taiwan (also known as the Republic of China) in the United Nations.

Vatican City / The Holy See


The independent papal state of 771 people (including the Pope) was created in 1929. They have not chosen to become part of the international organization.
The hurley burley membership roster of The League of Nations is as fricking hilarious as it is tragic.
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Old February 20 2013, 02:29 PM   #21
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Early starfleet.

Timo wrote: View Post
Dunno. Archer's ship is as large as Kirk's,
Actually its not. We saw A Constitution next to an NX in In A Mirror Darkly, the Constitution was considerably bigger.
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Old February 20 2013, 03:04 PM   #22
Guy Gardener
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Re: Early starfleet.

Flagship class?

The flagship is the ship the carries the flag. Any ship can carry the flag. Be in charge. Since the flag is more about the ships Captain than the ship itself, but a Captain or Admiral expected to be the supreme commander of any engagement is not going to be driving a dinky little rowboat, but still the better Captain is more important than the superior gunship no matter what Janeway, who is in charge of a dinky little rowboat might say...

JANEWAY: Starfleet Regulation one hundred ninety one, Article fourteen. In a combat situation involving more than one ship, command falls to the vessel with tactical superiority. I looked it up this morning.
If not for that regulation, we'd assume that the guy who looks ten years older than Kathryn would have 10 years seniority in the rank of Captain over her, and should have gotten command of the fleet, but no... Voyager had more torpedoes than Equinox which means that Voyager is tactically superior and Janeway should have promoted herself to Fleet Captain.

Calling Kirks Enterprise a "Heavy Battle Cruiser" happened in Star Trek III, and those same Klingon's where the only people in all of Star Trek to use the term "transfer the Flag" but then considering all the higher ranked officers are called flag officers arn't all ships then flagships?

Maybe "ship of the line" is what you were looking for?
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Old February 20 2013, 07:36 PM   #23
Timo
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Re: Early starfleet.

There are three countries on the planet out of 196 (depending how you count) today who do not belong to the United Nations.
Plus a couple of dozen that would like to, but aren't even allowed to call themselves countries.

Just goes to show that the UN now is close to its version of 2150, whereas United Earth might have started out just as humbly as the UN in 1945 did, representing fifty-one out of the about 150-170 nations around at the time.

Actually its not. We saw A Constitution next to an NX in In A Mirror Darkly, the Constitution was considerably bigger.
Here?

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...arkly2_504.jpg

That's just perspective at work. Window row comparisons and the like support the backstage specs of Archer's ship being a bit larger than Kirk's, actually - that is, the saucer is wider. The secondary hull of Kirk's ship is a rather negligible component in any case.

considering all the higher ranked officers are called flag officers arn't all ships then flagships?
Technically, "flag officer" begins at the rank of Commodore, or possibly Rear Admiral. Plenty of starships in TOS with a Commodore in command, possibly also serving as flagships in the sense of leading formations (the Lexington had three "wingmen", but we never learned whether the Constellation had any).

Flagship in the civilian sense of "best, prettiest and the one we want to present in our parades and sales pitches" is probably what Flagship of the Federation means whenever Picard calls his TNG vessel that. It's not something we'd associate with Kirk's ship, considering she's not really non pareil, but it might apply to Archer's.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old February 21 2013, 01:34 AM   #24
Guy Gardener
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Re: Early starfleet.

Archers ship is so IMPOSSIBLY far away from the sphere of human influence (he was 20 years from Earth at warp 1 by the 5th episode, but bumped into the Maywheaters in episode 10. Well thought out there Braga.) that whatever was the Flagship before Enterprise was built, is probably still the Flagship.
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Old February 21 2013, 02:25 AM   #25
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Re: Early starfleet.

Timo wrote: View Post
Archer's ship is as large as Kirk's
No, it isn't.

The NX class is 225 meters long, 135.8 meters wide, 33.3 meters high.

The Constitution class is 289 meters long. We don't know its width, but we do know its height is also greater than an NX, due to the secondary hull.

Also, the mass of the NX is much less. The NX is about 80,000 tons in mass; the Connie is almost a million.
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Old February 21 2013, 08:09 AM   #26
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Re: Early starfleet.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
2123 was from Novels.

Don't scare me like that!
No, the novels establish United Earth to have been founded in 2130. 2123 was from an ENT promotional website.
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Old February 21 2013, 08:28 AM   #27
Guy Gardener
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Re: Early starfleet.

Equally as noncanonical.

What actually happened in 2123 was that the Up the Long ladder people's great great grand parents, said "fuck this, Earth sucks, Irish Hobo's out!"
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Old February 21 2013, 08:41 AM   #28
Sci
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Re: Early starfleet.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Equally as noncanonical.
So what? It's all equally fictional.
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Old February 21 2013, 09:04 AM   #29
Dukhat
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Re: Early starfleet.

Infern0 wrote: View Post
I'd be interested to know what came after the NX class.
The NY and NZ classes.

Timo wrote: View Post
Curiously, NX-01 is retired in 2161 already. Did the type prove to be a disappointment or what? Perhaps the next major type would have been radically different if the NX design indeed failed to pan out.
The only reason the NX-01 was decommissioned was so that it wouldn't have been the first Federation Starfleet vessel called Enterprise. That doesn't mean the NX class itself was a failure.

King Daniel wrote: View Post
We know they had the giant Einstein-class ships, like the USS Kelvin, in the 2230's.
Einstein class?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Actually its not. We saw A Constitution next to an NX in In A Mirror Darkly, the Constitution was considerably bigger.
I believe the saucer is the same size as the Constitution class, not the entire ship.
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Old February 21 2013, 09:36 AM   #30
Guy Gardener
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Re: Early starfleet.

Sci wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Equally as noncanonical.
So what? It's all equally fictional.
There are deeper degrees of fiction.

You know what canon means.

If it happened on TV or a Movie.
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