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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old February 19 2013, 04:30 PM   #136
LtChange
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

I say let's wait for the final product. I cannot judge by some flashing images in a compressed trailer. I really want to see how it holds up. The fact is that Firefly has SD effects up-scaled to 1080p and they look pretty good so I really don't think 720p up-scaled to 1080p will look worse ...
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Old February 19 2013, 11:55 PM   #137
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

I'm not too sure where you are getting this 720p stuff for the effects, since every where that I've looked, whether it be the old Communicator magazine, or other sources, say that the special effects were done at 1080p, the same level as the transfers for the live-action sequences.

But the funny thing is that all the HD broadcasts of Enterprise are at a level that is about equal to that of 480p DVD, not Blu-Ray, by the time that they reach your house.
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Old February 20 2013, 01:24 AM   #138
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
I'm not too sure where you are getting this 720p stuff for the effects, since every where that I've looked, whether it be the old Communicator magazine, or other sources, say that the special effects were done at 1080p, the same level as the transfers for the live-action sequences.

But the funny thing is that all the HD broadcasts of Enterprise are at a level that is about equal to that of 480p DVD, not Blu-Ray, by the time that they reach your house.
I don't have a source, but it has been mentioned several times that the effects were done at 720p, since that's all that could be broadcast.
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Old February 20 2013, 02:38 AM   #139
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

I always thought the effects were done at 480p due to the render times?
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Old February 20 2013, 03:34 AM   #140
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

^ No, ENT was made in HD from the get-go.

I have all four seasons from iTunes and they look great in HD.
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Old February 21 2013, 08:52 PM   #141
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

Start Wreck wrote: View Post
It looks surprisingly good for something made thirteen years ago!
Broken Bow premiered 11 years and 4 months ago.

Jurassic Park, on the other hand, celebrates its 20th anniversary in June, and it still looks better than 90% of all CGI done since. Although, to be fair, Broken Bow was made with a fraction of JP's budget.
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Old February 22 2013, 07:35 PM   #142
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

trekker670 wrote: View Post

I don't have a source, but it has been mentioned several times that the effects were done at 720p, since that's all that could be broadcast.
720p would make sense as an output format for the entire episode for broadcast, since the majority of TV stations, even now, are broadcasting HD in 720p, and for those broadcasting in 1080i, an up convert wouldn't be as noticeable, because of the amount of compression that will be put on the signal by the time it reaches your house it will not be anywhere near what was sent out, and by the time it does reach your house, it is closer to the next lower resolution on Blu-Ray/ DVD; but for future use it would make sense for the effects to have been done in 1080p. It's just like streaming and downloading video over the Internet where the signal needs to be compressed to be more manageable. If you look at "Smallville", where the Season 1 effects were done in 480p, it is possible to make HD 720 videos for those episodes available because the compression put on the video and file will negate any problems caused by up converting, and still make them look as good as an up converted DVD.

For TV broadcast, even if the video is sent out at 720p, by the time it reaches your house, the signal will look no better than a 480p upressed DVD. A 1080i signal will look no better than a 720p signal on Blu-Ray. Same goes for Internet video. And 1080p currently is not offered because, with the amount of compression needed to transmit a 1080p signal with current ATSC and other digital standards, would result in an image that looked like it came from a VHS tape recorded on SLP.

So when Enterprise is released we will be seeing the HD versions in a much better way than we have seen it on broadcast, or in Internet streaming/download. It still won't be the full quality of the original masters, but it will be better than the current versions that are out.

Last edited by tomswift2002; February 22 2013 at 07:51 PM.
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Old February 22 2013, 09:01 PM   #143
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

I have no link to back this up - but frequenting many AV enthusiast boards outside of Star Trek, the overwhelming opinion is that the ENT FX were indeed rendered at 720p - of course, this isn't proof in of itself, but nevertheless, I do feel it's the likely scenario. If done properly, it probably won't be a huge deal, and will integrate perfectly well with the 1080p live footage. I really wish somebody "in the loop" would confirm these details officially though.
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Old February 22 2013, 09:24 PM   #144
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

The Enterprise VFX was done at 720p.

See here: http://trekcore.com/blog/2012/10/ent...-news-emerges/
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Old February 22 2013, 09:31 PM   #145
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

Aatrek wrote: View Post
The Enterprise VFX was done at 720p.

See here: http://trekcore.com/blog/2012/10/ent...-news-emerges/
OK, thanks for that.
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Old February 22 2013, 09:55 PM   #146
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VFX rendering

Aatrek wrote: View Post
The Enterprise VFX was done at 720p.

See here: http://trekcore.com/blog/2012/10/ent...-news-emerges/
here is a repost that I typed up from an article about ENT visual effects and rendering from John Carroll Online Editor. I think Aatrek you will find this a little more detailed.



jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
No, the Enterprise effects were not rendered at 480i. They were done at full HD resolution
trevanian wrote: View Post
How do you get hold of Millimeter magazine? Do you have to have a New York background or something like that?
I've answered trevanian's quote from another subforum here
To tell you the truth I was at a studio yesterday in midtown Manhattan and I saw a current issue sitting with other magazines. It was subscribed to the studio tech guy.
You can read current Millimeter articles here:
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/

Scroll down to the bottom and you can read articles from EVERY issue back to 1997. I just did a quick search for the article with that answer:

Tales from the HD Trenches Mar 1, 2002
scroll down to "Colorist in a Hybrid World"

John Carroll, the show’s online editor at Level 3,
and in 2005 they did another article on Enterprise visual effects and the tech specs of the pipeline while shooting on HD video:

“We get matte shots coming over, and those things can take huge amounts of time to render. Our schedule doesn't always allow for it, but on the other hand, if you don't do it, you can end up with aliasing and various artifacts. Our tests showed us the difference between shots rendered out in HD and those rendered in SD and up-rezzed. So that is one reason we took the show to [Technicolor] — to be in a facility fully equipped to do HD 100 percent of the time. I always ask for HD stuff, and if we run into a render problem, we evaluate it at that time and do what we have to do to make it work in our timeframe.”
Breaking the Comfort Zone
Mar 1, 2005




let me repeat

Moore adds that this HD effects pipeline still periodically renders out standard-def elements and then up-rezzes them if a render-intensive shot would threaten the schedule.
That is season 4 (2004-2005)!

So guys and gals who want to nitpick the HD picture when the Blu-ray comes out in a couple years it will be the matte shots that will most likely show up as low resolution.
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Old February 22 2013, 10:28 PM   #147
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
For TV broadcast, even if the video is sent out at 720p, by the time it reaches your house, the signal will look no better than a 480p upressed DVD.
Excuse me?

HD is digital, you know.
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Old February 23 2013, 01:00 AM   #148
tomswift2002
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

Excuse me?

HD is digital, you know.

Obviously you didn't read the rest of my thing there, or you would see that I said the signal gets so compressed that by the time it reaches your house, a 720p broadcast signal is no better than an upressed 480p DVD. So, currently, if you watch the Enterprise DVD's on a DVD or Blu-Ray player that's upressing the video to 720p you are getting the same quality of video as you would from a 720p HD broadcast of the show.
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Old February 23 2013, 01:13 AM   #149
Dream
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

BillJ wrote: View Post
I always thought the effects were done at 480p due to the render times?
Only DS9 and VOY's effects were done in 480 quality, which will need to be redone to stand up to HD televisions. That's why they would be more expensive to remaster than TNG, which used ship models through the entire seires.

ENT's ship effects were done in 720p, so it can at least somewhat stand up to HD.
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Old February 23 2013, 01:13 AM   #150
ATimson
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Re: The bird is out: ENTERPRISE on blu-ray

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
So, currently, if you watch the Enterprise DVD's on a DVD or Blu-Ray player that's upressing the video to 720p you are getting the same quality of video as you would from a 720p HD broadcast of the show.
Where are you pulling that from? ATSC MPEG-2 broadcasts (over the air, not recompressed cable/satellite feeds) have an 80% (minimum) - 150% (typical) higher bitrate than DVD does.
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