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Old February 19 2013, 04:12 PM   #31
Jsplinis
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

I haven't read Kobayashi Maru since it first came out. Hence, all I remember of it is that Kirk and some crew are stuck in a shuttle raft and pass the time telling stories of their test.

But since I don't remember the details of the recollections, how does Kirk's compare to the story as told in DC vol.2 #73?
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Old February 19 2013, 04:27 PM   #32
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
I haven't read Kobayashi Maru since it first came out. Hence, all I remember of it is that Kirk and some crew are stuck in a shuttle raft and pass the time telling stories of their test.

But since I don't remember the details of the recollections, how does Kirk's compare to the story as told in DC vol.2 #73?
The version told in that issue is actually adapted from Julia Ecklar's version in The Kobayashi Maru. The dialogue's a bit streamlined in the comic, but otherwise it's the exact same sequence of events.
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Old February 19 2013, 04:30 PM   #33
ATimson
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Christopher wrote: View Post
As I recall, the New Earth books assume they're in TWOK-style uniforms.
The first New Earth book explicitly has the transition between the two styles.
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Old February 19 2013, 04:45 PM   #34
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

ATimson wrote: View Post
The first New Earth book explicitly has the transition between the two styles.
I see. Well, it's not the only one that purports to depict that. Howard Weinstein's The Better Man alludes to McCoy still trying to get used to a new uniform design. (Although that novel is set in 2273 and was written at a time when the Chronology put TMP in 2271, and before VGR: "Q2" canonically put the end of the 5YM in 2270, requiring TMP to be in '72-3. Since the novels assume TMP to be in '73, I choose to put The Better Man very shortly after TMP -- right between Ex Machina and The Darkness Drops Again, in fact -- and assume it's those uniforms that McCoy is still adjusting to.) I think there are a couple of others as well.
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Old February 23 2013, 03:02 PM   #35
Mirak
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Hi,

I need a bit help with TOS novels and this seems to be the right thread. I'm currently rewatching the whole Trek (now in the middle of third season of TOS) and I do want to enhance my experience with some novels. Now I'm quite familiar with novels "from 24th century", but I know next to nothing about TOS novels or comics.
My requirements for the novels and comics are these: They don't contradict established canon, they don't contradict each other and they don't contradict 24th century relaunch universe (minor mistakes and discrepancies are all right, we all know that even tv Trek is far from perfect in this aspect).
Naturally, I would probably like to fill the voids between TOS and TAS, TAS and movies and movies themselves, but if there are some nice novels for example from Pike era, then by all means.
I tried to do some research, but I haven't found anything really conclusive or complete. "Charting the novel verse" on this site is really nice, but it's more suited for people familiar with the issue.
So the novels list should be something like Jsplinis posted, but with bit more info. (I don't know which are the A.C. Crispin's novels mentioned above)

Thanks for any help.
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Old February 23 2013, 03:51 PM   #36
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Mirak wrote: View Post
My requirements for the novels and comics are these: They don't contradict established canon, they don't contradict each other and they don't contradict 24th century relaunch universe (minor mistakes and discrepancies are all right, we all know that even tv Trek is far from perfect in this aspect).
Well, that limits you mainly to books published over the past decade. With no new Prime-universe canon being produced since ENT ended, there's less risk of contradiction, and the books do generally tend to keep consistent -- though there are certainly exceptions, books that make a choice to disregard the main novel continuity, such as the Crucible trilogy and The Children of Kings.

A number of earlier TOS novels haven't been definitively contradicted yet, but there's no authoritative standard for which ones are "in" and which aren't. A given novel's discrepancies may be irreconcilable for one reader and easily reconcilable for another. Only you can decide for yourself which books you think fit well enough. And if you limit yourself to earlier TOS books that haven't been contradicted, you're kind of ruling out most of the really cool ones.


Naturally, I would probably like to fill the voids between TOS and TAS, TAS and movies and movies themselves, but if there are some nice novels for example from Pike era, then by all means.
There's no clearly defined "void" between TOS and TAS. I think most writers just treat TAS as the fourth year of the five-year mission, though there are one or two who treat it as intermingling with TOS. It's another of those things that come down to individual interpretation.

But it sounds like my TOS books would fit what you're looking for. Ex Machina is a direct sequel to TMP and addresses some of the character transitions between TOS and TMP and between TMP and TWOK. Mere Anarchy is a series of six novellas spanning the entire Kirk era from pilots to films, and my installment The Darkness Drops Again is a followup to Ex Machina that further fleshes out the era between TMP and TWOK. And Department of Temporal Investigations: Forgotten History is a novel that spans the TOS era and early post-TMP era, making heavy use of TAS elements, portraying the end of the 5-year mission, and filling in still more of the period after TMP.

The Vanguard series is definitely a must. It's not about the Enterprise crew for the most part, but it fills in a lot of TOS-era and movie-era backstory and fleshes out the universe from that timeframe a lot more. And it connects to elements of the 24th-century continuity as well.
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Old February 23 2013, 05:05 PM   #37
chris_masters5
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Mirak wrote: View Post
Hi,

I need a bit help with TOS novels
Not sure about continuity between stories but I've made a list of the TOS novels and Movie era novels I've read (and plan to read) might be of some help. There are probably some other good stories I've missed out. If anyone would like to add...

Pike:
Vulcan's Glory
The Children of Kings
Burning Dreams

pre TOS:
My Brother's Keeper Republic
My Brother's Keeper Constitution
Enterprise: The First Adventure
My Brother's Keeper Enterprise

TOS:
Vanguard: Harbinger
Vanguard: Summon The Thunder
Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind
Vanguard: Open Secrets
The Janus Gate: Present Tense
The Janus Gate: Future Imperfect
The Janus Gate: Past Prologue
Errand of Vengeance: The Edge of the Sword
Errand of Vengeance: Killing Blow
Errand of Vengeance: River of Blood
Errand of Fury: Seeds of Rage
Errand of Fury: Demands of Honour
Errand of Fury: Sacrifices of War
Vanguard: Precipice
Seven Deadly Sins: The First Peer (short story)
Vanguard: Declassified
Section 31: Cloak
Seven Deadly Sins: The Unhappy Ones (short story)
Vanguard: What Judgement Come
Vanguard: Storming Heaven
That Which Divides
Assignment Eternity
The Eugenics Wars (1&2)
The Rings of Time
Allegiance in Exile
Crucible Trilogy (not sure where to place this)

Movie Era:
ST1 The Motion Picture
Ex Machina
DTI: Forgotten History
Spock's World
Rihannsu Saga
The Pandora Principle
Duty, Honour, Redemption (Movies 2,3,4)
The Unspoken Truth
To Reign in Hell
ST5 The Final Frontier
In the Name of Honour
Probe
Excelsior: Forged in Fire
ST6 Undiscovered Country
Sarek
Mind Meld
The Last Round Up
The Captain's Daughter
Cast No Shadow
Lost Era and Stargazer novels
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Old February 23 2013, 06:35 PM   #38
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

^Don't expect much in the way of continuity between those. Too many contradictions to list!

If you're going for all books in the era, I'd add in Dreadnought!, Battlestations! and The Lost Years novels too, between TOS and TMP.
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Old February 24 2013, 03:17 AM   #39
Therin of Andor
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Mirak wrote: View Post
My requirements for the novels and comics are these: They don't contradict established canon, they don't contradict each other and they don't contradict 24th century relaunch universe (minor mistakes and discrepancies are all right, we all know that even tv Trek is far from perfect in this aspect).
Or, you could read 'em all and just ignore the bits that don't fit.

All the novels are expected not to contradict canon when they are written, but as TOS movies, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT were being produced, all manner of large (and many tiny) plot points from past novels and comics would have been trampled by the unfolding "canon" and the other tie-ins. You're never going to find a definitive list of which books remain totally unscathed.

You risk missing out on some really fun stuff because you're letting others tell you which books are "safe" to read. Are you also going to be scared off by typos? At least one TOS novel ("Mindshadow") misspells "Chekhov" throughout and mixes up Shras (the Andorian ambassador from "Journey to Babel") and Thelev (his deceased, Orion-in-disguise, aide).
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Old February 24 2013, 07:38 PM   #40
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Yeah, filtering trek books for adherences to whatever is a quick way to miss out on some of the very best trek books ever written, like "The Final Reflection"
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Old February 26 2013, 11:35 PM   #41
Jsplinis
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

So far, fom what I've read hear and on my own it appears that although there may be inconsistencies between DC Comics vol. 2 and the TOS novels, there are also major tie-ins between them as well. For example:

1. DC Comics vol.2 uses a Pike era crew that matches up with D.C. Fontana's Vulcan Glory (namely Scotty)
2. Kirk's Kobayashi Maru test is shown as the same in #73 and in the novel Kobayashi Maru
3. Howard Weinstein was the second ongoing writer of Vol.2 and continued using Tuchinsky and Saavik as crew members in his Mere Anarchy story.

Were there any other strong links or connections between any novels and DC vol.2

Also, I know that Saavik's backstory was explored in Vol.1 of DC, but was it ever mentioned in Vol.2? If so, how does each presentation compare to Pandora's Principle or Unspoken Truth?

And finally, Peter David and Howard Weinstein were the two ongoing writers of DC Vol.2 Do their respective TOS novels and short stories stay consistent with their stories in the comics?
The Rift?
Disinherited?
Captain's Daughter?
The Covenant of the Crown?
Deep Domain?
The Better Man?
Official Record?
Mere Anarchy: Blood Rimmed Tide?

Thanks and have fun,
jsplinis
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Old February 26 2013, 11:56 PM   #42
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
1. DC Comics vol.2 uses a Pike era crew that matches up with D.C. Fontana's Vulcan Glory (namely Scotty)
Well, yeah, Scotty's there, but otherwise I don't think it quite fits, since there are multiple Vulcans in the crew in Vulcan's Glory, while in the comic, the dialogue implies that Spock is the only one and that the crew aren't used to having a Vulcan officer around.


Also, I know that Saavik's backstory was explored in Vol.1 of DC, but was it ever mentioned in Vol.2? If so, how does each presentation compare to Pandora's Principle or Unspoken Truth?
Issue #51 alludes to Saavik being half-Romulan. As I said, all the tie-ins follow Vonda McIntyre's lead on that. I don't think we got any extensive backstory flashbacks, though.


And finally, Peter David and Howard Weinstein were the two ongoing writers of DC Vol.2 Do their respective TOS novels and short stories stay consistent with their stories in the comics?
The Rift?
Disinherited?
Captain's Daughter?
The Covenant of the Crown?
Deep Domain?
The Better Man?
Official Record?
Mere Anarchy: Blood Rimmed Tide?
As you say, The Blood-Dimmed Tide does fit pretty well into Howie's post-STV comics continuity, but the others are all in the era between TMP and TWOK, and Covenant and Domain preceded Howie's comics work. I don't think there's any real continuity there, though I can't think of any specific contradictions either.

As for PAD's books, I can't think of any specific cross-references between them and his comics. Unless it's Meyer and Boyajian, the bit players who show up in most of his fiction, usually as security guards in his Trek works. There's a transporter chief "Tooch" in The Rift who was presumably supposed to be Tuchinsky but had her name changed because the tie-ins weren't allowed any continuity at the time.
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Old February 28 2013, 04:10 AM   #43
Jsplinis
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

I was just reading about the Star Trek: Legacy video game that was co-written by DC Fontana. Apparently one of the things it deals with is the Vulcan/ Romulan split which is referred to as the Sundering.

I am curious where this term originated from. Does it come from the TV shows because I don't remember it. Does it come from DC Fontana's other works? Does it come from Diane Duane's Rihannsu stories or does it originate somewhere else? If it does come from Diane Duane's works, does this mean Duane's and Fontana's works coincide on Vulcan/ Romulan history?

Thanks and have fun,
jsplinis
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Old February 28 2013, 04:18 AM   #44
Mirak
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Christopher, thank You very much for reply. Your books and Vanguard series looks absolutely great!

@Therin- Well I'm not looking for totally unscathed list, I simply assumed, that there is at least partially organized list or something resembling the novel universe much like the one for 24th century Trek. And I was asking, because I read some of TOS novels from the 80's which were published in Czech republic in early 90's and most of them were pretty terrible. (as well as first 12 or 13 numbered TNG pocket book series and they were also mostly complete garbage - Roman centurions from Bread and Circuses (I dont know, why would anyone wanted to do a sequel for this episode) as Starfleet officers on Constitution class starship in 24th century or made up powerful alien races which are supposedly major players in alpha quadrant, but just in a single novel and other stuff I hate in tie-in novels)
So I'd like avoid this type of novels as much as possible. But I think that for now, Vanguard novels are exactly what I was looking for.
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Old February 28 2013, 04:21 AM   #45
Mirak
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Sundering - I am curious where this term originated from. Does it come from the TV shows because I don't remember it.
I don't think so. It's also term used for example in Warhammer universe, but instead of Vulcan/Romulan it deals with Elves/Dark Elves.

No, not similar at all
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