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Old February 13 2013, 05:21 PM   #16
Reanok
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Another book that takes place during the Tos Movie era Sarek by A.C.Crispin and, Shadows on the Sun by Micheal Jan Friedman.
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Old February 13 2013, 09:00 PM   #17
Garrovick
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

[QUOTE=Christopher;7676113]
Jsplinis wrote: View Post
Home is the Hunter conflicts with In the Name of Honor in that it kills off Mr. Garrovick, but I don't think it conflicts with any of the other books on your list.
Actually, Garrovick was only mostly dead in Home is the Hunter. McCoy revived him with the same potion he used on Mr. Leslie after "Obsession".
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Old February 13 2013, 09:41 PM   #18
JWolf
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
12. She'll Game
TVM/ TWOK
Couple of corrections...

12. Shell Game
TMP/TWOK
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Old February 14 2013, 09:11 PM   #19
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Oops sorry about the TVM. I am also a Doctor Who fan and TVM stands for TV Movie as in the Paul McGann episode. I guess I am used to typing that from my time on the Gallifrey Base forum and accidentally typed it when I was meaning to type TMP.

She'll was just my auto correct on my iPhone not letting me type Shell.


Funny thing is, I proofread my post and didn't catch either of those mistakes.

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Old February 14 2013, 09:22 PM   #20
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

I was wondering about something else. During the time that most of the TMP/ TWOK novels came out, so did the DC Comics TOS movie era comics. There are only two novels published at the time that happened between TWOK/ TUC. On the other hand DC only printed 1 comic that takes place between TMP/ TWOK. Was this intentional by both parties as a sign of respect towards the timeframes each was covering? Was this an attempt to coordinate between the two companies in some way to form a singular continuity? Or was this just a coincidence?

Also, I know DC Comics Volume 1 was hard to reconcile with the continuity eventually established in the movies as they came out, but the stories were fun. However, Volume 2 seemed to fit very well as a good linear series for the TFF/ TUC Missions. So my next question is how well do DC Comics Volume 2 and MoviE Era novels coincide. Are there any major continuity problems that prevent them from coexisting in one timeline?

Thanks and Have Fun,
Jsplinis
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Old February 14 2013, 10:03 PM   #21
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
I was wondering about something else. During the time that most of the TMP/ TWOK novels came out, so did the DC Comics TOS movie era comics. There are only two novels published at the time that happened between TWOK/ TUC. On the other hand DC only printed 1 comic that takes place between TMP/ TWOK. Was this intentional by both parties as a sign of respect towards the timeframes each was covering? Was this an attempt to coordinate between the two companies in some way to form a singular continuity? Or was this just a coincidence?
I think it was just different editorial philosophies, and maybe a function of the different formats. Comics tell ongoing, often serialized stories moving forward in time, so once they started out their series by tying into the latest movie, they naturally continued forward from there. And when DC first got their license, it was between TWOK and TSFS, so that was where they started from, and as they moved forward they stayed current with the movies. Novels, on the other hand, tell more self-contained stories, and at the time there was little continuity among novels. So although Pocket started out in its first year or so doing mostly novels set after TMP, it wasn't long before they started jumping around and doing 5-year mission stories, and that turned out to be the timeframe that most authors preferred working in.

And there definitely wasn't an attempt at a single continuity between Pocket and DC. There were some cases of cross-referencing, like Diane Duane using her novel characters in the comics she wrote, but there were other cases of direct contradiction; for instance, Pocket and DC did incompatible versions of both the start and the end of the 5-year mission.


However, Volume 2 seemed to fit very well as a good linear series for the TFF/ TUC Missions. So my next question is how well do DC Comics Volume 2 and MoviE Era novels coincide. Are there any major continuity problems that prevent them from coexisting in one timeline?
I still count most of the Howard Weinstein issues from Vol. 2 in my personal continuity along with several of the novels from that era. Some other stuff in Vol. 2 has some conflicts with canon, though; for instance, the Peter David issues portray a 23rd-century Klingon emperor (contradicting TNG's "Rightful Heir"), and the Debt of Honor graphic novel offers an explanation of ridged vs. smooth Klingons that contradicts later canon.

Also, there might be an issue reconciling the PAD issues of Vol. 2, which begin shortly after TFF and continue serially for some time thereafter, with In the Name of Honor, which mostly takes place in the month after TFF. Although it might be possible to fudge the timing a bit.
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Old February 14 2013, 11:35 PM   #22
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Also, there might be an issue reconciling the PAD issues of Vol. 2, which begin shortly after TFF and continue serially for some time thereafter, with In the Name of Honor, which mostly takes place in the month after TFF. Although it might be possible to fudge the timing a bit.
Even the modern "intended to be consistent" lit-verse has some fudging with timing (most of S.C.E.). It'd be in good company.
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Old February 15 2013, 12:39 AM   #23
Jsplinis
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Through the years, I have read all of the TOS comics printed since TVH came out. Of those, DC Comics volume 2 has always held a special place for me. It felt like a comic book equivalent of the TV series for the 3rd set of missions and seemed to cover all of the major developments that took place between TFF/TUC, such as Sulu getting his own command and Valeris coming on board. Also, my favorite character, Saavik, was brought on as a regular during these stories giving her a spot as the 10th main TOS character (12th if you count Arex and M'Ress. (I know she was in volume 1, but she felt more "official" in Volume 2 because volume 1 had such a large cast)

Also back in those days I read a handful of the early novels. The ones that stuck with me were the ones that took place between TMP/ TWOK. They had a similar feel to DC Vol.2 in that they filled in for the 2nd 5YM and subsequent gap and also hit major moments like the origin of Saavik (Pandora Principle) and the end of the 2nd 5YM (Deep Domain). Other than these I also read Diane Duane's first 2 Rihannsu novels and Doctors Orders.

So between the TV series depicting the 1st 5YM, the novels depicting the 2nd and the comics the 3rd it felt like a good set of adventures. Also it felt natural that each mission would have familiar faces (the big 7) but would also have differences (Duane's characters for the 2nd and DC's Saavik and Tooch for the 3rd). If the TOS had been brought back it would have probably had cast changes along the way.

So after about 20 years away from the novels I thought it would probably be fun to do an TOS marathon. But before I start I wanted to have it figured out ahead of time.

For the first 5YM I would include

1. The TOS And TAS shows
2. D.C. Fontana's Vulcan Glory and Enterprise Experiment (IDW).

For the 2nd 5YM and Pre-TWOK Era I would use

1. Ex Machina (which I haven't read but have heard is incredible) for the first adventure,
2. Diane Duane's Novels
3. A.C.Crispin's novels
4. Howard Weinstein's Deep Domain for the final mission along with the Covenant of the Crown and the Better Man.
5. Pandora's Principle as Saavik's origin and M.W.Bonanno's Unspoken Truth follow-up.

For the 3rd set of missions I would use

1. DC Comics Volume 2 and all of its associated annuals, specials, graphic novels and Modalla Imperative.

Also I would use any other TOS stories written by major writers because they would probably not contradict their other works but add to them. These would include

1. Howard Weinstein's Official Record
2. Peter David's The Rift.
3. A.C. Crispin's Sarek and its sequel Enter the Wolves (Wildstorm)
4. Mere Anarchy (Weinstein and Bennett connected)
5. Bennett's As Others See Us
6. Bonanno's Dwellers in the Crucible, Strangers in the Sky and Music of the Spheres
7. Stories by DC Comics Vol.2 that happen at other points of time.

So what does everyone think, would this create any major continuity problems both internally and taken with the later shows ? (TNG, DS9, etc.) Does Saavik's story stay consistent. Would there be any other problems I'm not thinking of?

Also, of the L.A.Graf novels in the 2nd 5YM I have only read Kobayashi Maru. Can this and the others be used without creating problems. How about Home is the Hunter and Enemy Unseen? Any other suggestions?

So I look forward to your inputs and to reexploring TOS. With the TOS/TAS AND DC Vol.2 you get the feeling of a series for their respective set of missions. I would love to get that serial/ series feel for the 2nd 5YM through a careful collection of Novels to represent those stories and missions.

Thanks again and have fun,
Jsplinis
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Old February 15 2013, 12:52 AM   #24
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Jsplinis wrote: View Post
Through the years, I have read all of the TOS comics printed since TVH came out. Of those, DC Comics volume 2 has always held a special place for me. It felt like a comic book equivalent of the TV series for the 3rd set of missions and seemed to cover all of the major developments that took place between TFF/TUC, such as Sulu getting his own command and Valeris coming on board.
Actually DC's version of Sulu's first command has been contradicted by the much later novel Excelsior: Forged in Fire. As for the Valeris story, it doesn't quite mesh with TUC itself, since in the movie, Spock was Valeris's Academy sponsor and Kirk hadn't met her before, neither of which is true in the comic. Don't get me wrong, the comic is a very good story, but a couple of continuity errors slipped past the radar.


They had a similar feel to DC Vol.2 in that they filled in for the 2nd 5YM and subsequent gap and also hit major moments like the origin of Saavik (Pandora Principle) and the end of the 2nd 5YM (Deep Domain).
Ah, yes, the origin of Saavik is another instance where Pocket and DC took incompatible approaches.


So after about 20 years away from the novels I thought it would probably be fun to do an TOS marathon. But before I start I wanted to have it figured out ahead of time.

For the first 5YM I would include

1. The TOS And TAS shows
2. D.C. Fontana's Vulcan Glory and Enterprise Experiment (IDW).

For the 2nd 5YM and Pre-TWOK Era I would use

1. Ex Machina (which I haven't read but have heard is incredible) for the first adventure,
2. Diane Duane's Novels
3. A.C.Crispin's novels
4. Howard Weinstein's Deep Fomain for the final mission along with the Covenant of the Crown and the Better Man.
5. Pandora's Principle as Saavik's origin and M.W.Bonanno's Unspoken Truth follow-up.

For the 3rd set of missions I would use

1. DC Comics Volume 2 and all of its associated annuals, specials, graphic novels and Modalla Imperative.

Also I would use any other TOS stories written by major writers because they would probably not contradict their other works but add to them. These would include

1. Howard Weinstein's Official Record
2. Peter David's The Rift.
3. A.C. Crispin's Sarek and its sequel Enter the Wolves (Wildstorm)
4. Mere Anarchy (Weinstein and Bennett connected)
5. Bennett's As Others See Us
6. Bonanno's Dwellers in the Crucible, Strangers in the Sky and Music of the Spheres
7. Stories by DC Comics Vol.2 that happen at other points of time.

So what does everyone think, would this create any major continuity problems both internally and taken with the later shows ? (TNG, DS9, etc.) Does Saavik's story stay consistent. Would there be any other problems I'm not thinking of?[/quote]

There are some differences of detail between The Pandora Principle and Unspoken Truth where Saavik's backstory is concerned, though they use the same broad strokes. Pretty much every prose/comics version of Saavik's past uses the basics of what Vonda McIntyre established in her TWOK novelization, but there are differences in the specifics. And there are a number of other cases where you'd run into continuity discrepancies in those books, particularly between books from the '80s and those from the '00s. But it's probably best just to read them and decide for yourself how well they fit together. An inconsistency that may be unresolvable for one reader may be easy to accept for another.
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Old February 18 2013, 04:24 PM   #25
tomswift2002
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

You might also want to check the Kobayashi Maru by Julie Ecklar. The framing story is set (according to Memory Beta) in 2273, which is apparently years before The Wrath of Khan, but each character has their own short story set at the Academy decades before the 2273 sections.
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Old February 18 2013, 10:17 PM   #26
Freman
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Does the New Earth series have any continuity errors with the 'new' continuity novels, or does it fit?

I'll read it regardless, but I only track down, for collection purposes, novels that fit with the bigger picture, for lack of a better term.
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Old February 18 2013, 10:46 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Freman wrote: View Post
Does the New Earth series have any continuity errors with the 'new' continuity novels, or does it fit?
It's a bit iffy in how it interprets the post-TMP period. The historian's note at the opening puts it shortly after TMP, yet has Spock already a captain and Chekov already leaving for Reliant, which conflicts with most of the previous and subsequent post-TMP novels, which generally assume a second 5-year mission post-TMP. The official Pocket Timeline in Voyages of the Imagination bumped it forward to after that second 5YM, which mostly resolves that issue, I think. (Placed there, I think it fits fairly well with what I established about the pre-TWOK period in Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again, but perhaps not perfectly.) But I'm not sure if there are any other issues.
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Old February 19 2013, 07:28 AM   #28
Freman
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Well, I'll just rip the historian's note out of the beginning of each book. Problem solved.
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Old February 19 2013, 02:40 PM   #29
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

Freman wrote: View Post
Well, I'll just rip the historian's note out of the beginning of each book. Problem solved.
You'll probably need to Sharpie out any references to what uniforms they're wearing too.
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Old February 19 2013, 03:35 PM   #30
Christopher
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Re: TOS movie era Novels?

^As I recall, the New Earth books assume they're in TWOK-style uniforms. If we follow the Timeliners' precedent and put NE after the second 5YM, then there's no reason they couldn't be in TWOK uniforms by that point. Indeed, many of the post-TMP novels written over the past 30 years have assumed those uniforms were adopted no more than a couple of years after TMP. (My own post-TMP fiction is agnostic on the issue, since I haven't yet done anything set between 2275 and 2279. Although my personal preference would be to keep the TMP uniforms as long as possible, since I'm one of the few people who likes them and hates the TWOK uniforms.)
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