Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[Professor Zoom]

JarodRussell wrote:

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I've been watching the entire Bond series lately, and the amazing revelation was that Judi Dench's M fucked it up in every single Bond film she's been in. She's mostly working against Bond, and in the end has to admit that he's been right and she's been wrong. Skyfall feels like the climax of the arc of an incompetent M.

It's not the climax of the incompetent M. It's where Bond JOINS her in being incompetent.

How many people who fuck up as much as Bond does in this movie STILL get to keep their job?

[Captrek]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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How many people who fuck up as much as Bond does in this movie STILL get to keep their job?

A number of these people come to mind.

[Gaith]

Starkers wrote:

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Er, he was all huffy towards her in CR and QoS to, in fact you could argue his view is exactly the same in all three films. "You should have trusted me." in fact the film where M has a point is arguably CR because Bond is an idiot in it.

Maybe, but at least there he's doing his best, which is pretty darn good, and is huffy only when he thinks M is holding him back. In Skyfall, however, he repeatedly fails spectacularly (doesn't secure the agent list, doesn't even attempt to save the Hong Kong shooting victim, doesn't tell Q it might not be such a great idea to plug Silva's computer right into the MI6 network, and apparently doesn't notice several large gas cannisters while booby-trapping the manor), deserts the service, then doesn't point out the obvious - that he isn't fit for duty - upon his return, and is huffy all the while towards M because she's more correct than he is.

[Starkers]

Where in his job description does it say that 007 should save the assasination victim in Shanghai? For all we know the guy Patrice shot is as much of a bastard as Silva, in fact you could argue that given the circles he's obviously travelling in he's unlikely to be a humanitarian. Personally I'm more bothered about the poor security guy Patrice offs downstairs...

But, again, you could argue Bond is acting no differently. How many times has 007 gone out of his way to protect an innocent who wasn't the Bond girl or someone he had a specific reason to protect? 00 Agent, licenced to kill, he's an assasin, a blunt object whose objective is to provoke and confront, if I recall the M/Miranda conversation from DAD correctly.

007 is also not an expert in IT so I wouldn't expect him to suddenly turn into Harry Enfield and go "Ere, Q, you don't wanna do it like that, you want to do it like this..."

And I think he does know about the gas canisters, he just had no reason to need to use them because he wasn't expecting a helicopter gunship to turn up.

As for the agent list, he wasn't given the chance to retrive it, instead M told an inexperienced field agent to take a shot at two practically inseperable targets on a moving train...personally I think it was a situation where they were both right, to an extent, or at least I can see both points of view.

As for not pointing out that he's unfit for service, again I could give you countless examples of that (TWINE for one).

[Gaith]

Starkers wrote:

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007 is also not an expert in IT so I wouldn't expect him to suddenly turn into Harry Enfield and go "Ere, Q, you don't wanna do it like that, you want to do it like this..."

Really? Did you not see Casino Royale, in which he was able to track a cell phone using M's personal computer?

No offense, but I can't really take anyone seriously who defends this plot point. Bond was shown in this same movie to be wary of Q's youth and inexperience. He knew Q had caused a massive explosion in MI6 via hacking alone. And, as we've seen in Quantum of Solace, when he told the airline girl she was about to get a call inquiring where he was headed, he knows a thing or two about how fast modern and sophisticated modern computing is.

Maybe he took a few too many hits to the head before Istanbul, because Skyfall's Bond is a lot dumber than CR/QoS'.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Starkers wrote:

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Where in his job description does it say that 007 should save the assasination victim in Shanghai?

Or that he even could? The only way Bond could have saved that victim is if he'd shot Patrice first, and obviously he couldn't do that.

[Starkers]

Gaith wrote:

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Really? Did you not see Casino Royale, in which he was able to track a cell phone using M's personal computer?

No offense, but I can't really take anyone seriously who defends this plot point. Bond was shown in this same movie to be wary of Q's youth and inexperience. He knew Q had caused a massive explosion in MI6 via hacking alone. And, as we've seen in Quantum of Solace, when he told the airline girl she was about to get a call inquiring where he was headed, he knows a thing or two about how fast modern and sophisticated modern computing is.

Maybe he took a few too many hits to the head before Istanbul, because Skyfall's Bond is a lot dumber than CR/QoS'.

The trouble with Casino Royale is that it portrays Bond by turns as an idiot and a genius (just check out his surveillance techniques in Miami airport.)

Knowing how fast modern computing is is somewhat removed from being anywhere near the level of technical expertise that Silva and Q are meant to have. The trouble is you want to argue both ways, you berate Bond for questioning M's competence whilst also berating him for not questioning Q's!

And let's face it, Mallory and co were quite right...

But, you know, you hate Skyfall so keep picking. Does it have flaws, yup, do I still love it, yup.

[CaptainCanada]

On the tech front, having some knowledge of technology doesn't make Bond a tech specialist, which is what Q is. Bond would defer to him on stuff like that, that's Q's job. It'd be like questioning the procedures of Microsoft designers because you know how to set up a desktop PC.

[Gaith]

Ye all knew this day would come. And it hits all the right beats, along with the usual few stupid/joke ones. (Except Moneypenny's huge frizzy 'fro. Totally not suited for field work. At least Jinx got the hair part right!)

Everything Wrong With Skyfall In 4 Minutes Or Less

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I find Craig perfect for Bond in any objective way to measure it, but is also beyond dull. I can't get engaged in his character at all.

[JarodRussell]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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On the tech front, having some knowledge of technology doesn't make Bond a tech specialist, which is what Q is. Bond would defer to him on stuff like that, that's Q's job. It'd be like questioning the procedures of Microsoft designers because you know how to set up a desktop PC.

Bond has been shown to have a vast knowledge about anything he's asked about throughout the entire film series.

[Trekker4747]

Gaith wrote:

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Ye all knew this day would come. And it hits all the right beats, along with the usual few stupid/joke ones. (Except Moneypenny's huge frizzy 'fro. Totally not suited for field work. At least Jinx got the hair part right!)

Everything Wrong With Skyfall In 4 Minutes Or Less

Funny, funny, stuff.

Watched the one for "The Room", holy shit that was TOO funny!

[marillion]

Well, despite helming the most successful Bond movie ever, Sam Mendes is bailing on the franchise so he can focus on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and King Lear...

AICN

[JarodRussell]

Maybe they let Stuart Baird and John Logan team up again.

[Starkers]

Shudder...

I'm not surprised Mendes has made that decision, he has other projects he wants to work on and he clearly almost did take it on. No point working yourself into an early grave!

He isn't ruling out doing another one at some point in the future. If DC does end up doing two more it might be that Mendes' hiatus is only one film and he returns for Craig's send off.

You do kinda have to feel sorry for the next guy...