RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,841
Posts: 5,327,643
Members: 24,551
Currently online: 582
Newest member: Vargr1

TrekToday headlines

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 13 2013, 03:12 PM   #1
Freman
Fleet Captain
 
Freman's Avatar
 
Location: Kenora, Ontario, Canada
Andor question

So I'm reading Dayton Ward's TNG Typhon Pact novel at the moment, and I can't help but notice how often he is describing the planet Andor as being warm, and sunny, with a cool breeze. Stuff like that. Also, the characters "step out onto the grass" and are admiring the waterfalls and flowers.

um..isn't Andor an ice planet? What's going on here? This novel came after ENT. Was there some huge climate change due to the Borg attack on the planet, or am I missing something?
__________________
Booyaka!!!!
Freman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 03:25 PM   #2
lvsxy808
Rear Admiral
 
lvsxy808's Avatar
 
Location: London
Re: Andor question

It's probably tricky to reconcile, because the descriptions of it being hot and sweaty were established in earlier novels that came out before Andor was definitively portrayed as an ice planet in Enterprise. So the new books are walking a fine line trying to not contradict either of those earlier sources.

But if I understand correctly, the assumption has been that in ENT, the planet was in the last vestiges of an ice age. But with 200 years of climate change and more advanced weather control technologies, the Andorians now live in somewhat more temperate climes than the ones the species evolved in. However, the consequence is a certain meteorological unpredictability, as seen with the huge storms and sudden floods in Paradigm.

.
__________________
DS9-R fans! Want to know what happened after The Soul Key?

Read Deep Space Nine, Season 10
All 22 eps available to read on-screen or download and keep!
lvsxy808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 03:34 PM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Andor question

I believe those scenes take place in the equatorial zone, where it's far more temperate. Other parts of the planet are described in the book as being colder than Delta Vega.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 03:39 PM   #4
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Andor question

This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 04:11 PM   #5
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here, too. Yes.
Re: Andor question

Fear not, gentle Arrakian, the Nasat is here!

As lvsxy808 mentioned upthread, the early DS9 relaunch novels outright stated that Andorians prefer warm and humid environments; fortunately, they didn't state that Andorians required such, only that it was a preference. When Enterprise established Andor as a frozen moon, the novels mostly ignored the contradiction and made Shran and his 22nd century buddies conform to the cultural and naming conventions established in the DS9 books.

The Myriad Universes story "The Chimes At Midnight" later provided an explanation for why Andor in the DS9 novels is not so frozen, helping fully reconcile the two interpretations. Apparently, a global warming project was initiated in the early 23rd century tto increase Andor's agricultural capacity and thus reduce their dependency on offworld supply; apparently their trade deficit was becoming quite the issue. This warming project was a success, although it threatened the remaining Aenar settlements and led to a bit of a political kerfuffle. As Therin has pointed out on occasion, the sudden flash floods in parts of the planet as depicted in Andor: Paradigm might be considered the result of continued rapid melting.

Happily, DS9 relaunch Andorians were depicted as building subterranean dwellings, which fits nicely with what Enterprise established. The novels hinted that Andorian civilization was built around hot springs, which might explain the preference for heat and humidity while also keeping them adapted for the cold?
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.

Last edited by Deranged Nasat; February 13 2013 at 04:47 PM.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 04:27 PM   #6
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here, too. Yes.
Re: Andor question

On the other hand, given the Boreth issue, I propose the following:

Star Trek ice is different to normal ice, and can spontaneously vanish without apparent cause
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 05:07 PM   #7
Paris
Fleet Captain
 
Paris's Avatar
 
Location: In the future's past
Re: Andor question

Christopher wrote: View Post
This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate.
This!
Paris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 05:20 PM   #8
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Andor question

Christopher wrote: View Post
This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate.
That's ridiculous - how are we supposed to know which planet we are on now ?

It's cold - must be Hoth !

It's a desert - we're on Tatooine !

See - it works !

__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 10:49 PM   #9
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Andor question

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
As Therin has pointed out on occasion, the sudden flash floods in parts of the planet as depicted in Andor: Paradigm might be considered the result of continued rapid melting.
Heather Jarman managed an amazing feat with that story. As an Andorian chaser since 1980, I was amazed how many rare touchstones she managed to put in, many by fluke. (The cosmic consciousness at work!) The subterranean scenes in "Paradigm" matched up with numerous fanfic stories over the decades (and the "Starship Exeter" fan film set on Andor) even though Heather was unaware of those. She managed to slip in clothing references that indicated Andorian fashions seen (or barely glimpsed) in TOS, TMP and ENT.

And that flash flood scene in "Paradigm" suddenly became even more amazing when the ENT episode, "The Aenar", showed us so much ice and snow. But yeah, "The Aenar" was set on Andor's north pole, the Aenar themselves had passed into legend and one can imagine that the Andorian equator is heavily populated and perhaps a bit warmer.

DS9 relaunch Andorians were depicted as building subterranean dwellings, which fits nicely with what Enterprise established. The novels hinted that Andorian civilization was built around hot springs, which might explain the preference for heat and humidity while also keeping them adapted for the cold?
Indeed. Not to mention that Paramount's "Planet Hell" set reused the same caves over and over, and TOS had its own well-reused papier-mâché caverns.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13 2013, 11:22 PM   #10
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Andor question

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
And that flash flood scene in "Paradigm" suddenly became even more amazing when the ENT episode, "The Aenar", showed us so much ice and snow. But yeah, "The Aenar" was set on Andor's north pole, the Aenar themselves had passed into legend and one can imagine that the Andorian equator is heavily populated and perhaps a bit warmer.
Actually, in "The Aenar," it was said that there were places on Andoria where the temperature rose "above freezing for weeks at a time," suggesting that it was a pretty thoroughly glaciated planet at the time. And Shran said their cities were underground and he hadn't seen the sun until he was 15. So there's definitely been some major warming since then.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 04:02 PM   #11
tomswift2002
Captain
 
Re: Andor question

Are we talking about the same thing? Since, if I remember "The Aenar" episode correctly, the events take place on the moon orbiting the planet, with no mention of whether that is actually a gas giant or a very cloudy planet that we see in the background! (Although it did clear up why in the various series the Andorians homeworld was referred to as both Andor and Andoria).
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 05:21 PM   #12
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Andor question

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
Are we talking about the same thing? Since, if I remember "The Aenar" episode correctly, the events take place on the moon orbiting the planet, with no mention of whether that is actually a gas giant or a very cloudy planet that we see in the background! (Although it did clear up why in the various series the Andorians homeworld was referred to as both Andor and Andoria).
What's there to clear up? They're from the moon, and it's called both Andor and Andoria. Just like our planet is called both Earth and Terra, and Spock's world is called both Vulcan and Vulcanis, etc.

For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing. Lots of places have multiple names.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 06:11 PM   #13
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Andor question

Sci wrote: View Post
For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing.
Well, those are just different transliterations or regional pronunciations of the same word, rather than distinct names.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 08:40 PM   #14
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Andor question

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing.
Well, those are just different transliterations or regional pronunciations of the same word, rather than distinct names.
Fair point, but then that just points to how names can be changed and altered over time, especially in the hands of a foreign culture.

And then there's the issue of a native name vs. foreign name. We call it Germany, but its native name is Deutschland; the Germans call it Spanien, but its native name is España; the Spanish call it Japón, but its native name is Nippon; etc.

Heck, "Andoria" is almost certainly an Anglicization of the native name, even if "Andor" actually is the native term. After all, it's not like they'd be likely to use a Latin suffix for their world.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 08:50 PM   #15
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Andor question

^That's pretty much my thinking.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.