Downton Abbey - Am I Missing Something?

[Allyn Gibson]

I find it hard sometimes to root for Isobel. She means well and she often does good, but she's also a bossy know-it-all who is just as judgmental as those she judges and who fails to consider the ramifications of her plans on others. For the prime example, all of season two.

Anna and Mrs. Hughes are probably the two most "pure" characters in the series. Though I really began to worry about Anna this year with all the stuff surrounding Bates -- especially as I was ready for Bates to swing from the gallows just to spare us all from more tedious scenes of Anna fretting or Anna at the prison or Anna playing Veronica Mars.

[propita]

You know, how Bates was played in a few scenes in prison, one could almost believe that he DID kill his wife. Though I do believe the story that she offed herself and framed Bates, since Richard (Mary's ex-fiance) had her over a barrel to not profit from anything.

[SiorX]

I'm firmly of the opinion that Bates killed his wife. Not that the show means us to think that, but that the entire thing makes a lot more sense if he's an amazing manipulator who has them all fooled. The actual solution to the thing made no sense to me at all in terms of motive.

I have a love/hate relationship with Downton. I think Julian Fellowes is a writer with a genuine interest in what life was like for all different kinds of people - not just as stock character, but as personalities. And a refreshing belief that most people are basically decent and want to do right by each other. He's also managed to put together a stellar cast who bring a lot more depth to their characters than the script alone has to offer.

On the other hand, he's also a classist old Tory with an obnoxious dewy-eyed reverence for the good-old days when everyone knew their place, and he's been given a massive budget and primetime slot for his apologism. The revisionist history DA displays whenever it tries to tackle any of the actual substance of the class issue or the empire is terrible.

I love the characters, but I frequently end up hate-watching the show. (At times I've caught myself rooting for Branson to torch the abbey.)

[propita]

I'm amazed at how much James looks like a younger brother of Simon Baker! I'm too lazy to look up if they're related.

[Allyn Gibson]

propita wrote:

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I'm amazed at how much James looks like a younger brother of Simon Baker! I'm too lazy to look up if they're related.

They're not. James is played by Eragon's Edward Speleers.

[Galekarens]

My "love" for Downton Abbey stems from why I usually like a TV show: I like the characters (well a few kind of "love to hate," lol). And the setting doesn't hurt either; real-life Highclere Castle is pretty amazing, and its history is rather interesting. I'm not wishing for the return of such class distinctive life, but watching a show about it is pretty entertaining! (Well except for a certain moment .... won't say more just yet.) And yay Maggie Smith, usually, ha.

[The Borgified Corpse]

J.T.B. wrote:

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The servants are not always good examples; they can be as judgmental and hierarchical as the aristocrats, or more so.

Oh yeah. Compared to Mr. Carson, Lord Grantham is practially a hippy.

Kosh Naranek wrote:

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I also love Mrs Patmore and Mrs. Hughes.

That's been the most pleasant surprise for me during Season 3. Patmore & Hughes have such contrasting personalities, it's really great fun to see them be such great friends. The scenes with them going to the doctor's office together are comedy gold!

Kirby wrote:

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We're also recording season 3 so we can catch up. I'm trying to stay spoiler free, but that isn't working out so well.

Yeah. Sometimes that's harder than it should be. A few weeks ago, I was on Youtube looking for Lost Girl fanvideos and one of the "related" videos that they included was a pretty blatant Downton Abbey spoiler. WTF?

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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I know people who say they can never, ever root for Edith because she wrote the Turkish ambassador about how poor Kemal died.

The things I point out -- That was seven years ago (in the chronology of the series), Edith was 19 at the time, and 19 year-olds do rash, immature things for pointless reasons. That's not to excuse her behavior, just to point out that we've all done rash and stupid things when we were 19 that years later we wish we hadn't.

For me, the difference between Mary and Edith can be summed up in two scenes from this season:

On Edith's wedding day, Mary offers a one day truce in their hostilities. (Which, to be frank, don't seem particularly hostile any more.) Edith accepts the one day truce.

On the day Sybil dies, Edith offers Mary a permanent cessation of hostilities. Mary rejects it outright.

Edith is flawed. She's not the dutiful elder child, nor is she the rebellious younger child. She doesn't have a role in the family. She's not quite sure what her role in life is. She often behaves as if she were starved for affection. But she also recognizes that she's done mean and horrible things -- and she wants to stop doing them.

This is kind of awful to say, but I think Edith is starting to flower a little more now that Sybil is dead. It gives Edith the opportunity to be the rebellious younger child, although her rebellion seems to be far more conservative than Sybil's.

While it was kind of nasty the way that Edith told the Turkish embassy about Mr. Pamouk, I kind of understand why Edith would do something so petty. Plus, Mary got some pretty swift revenge when she sabotaged Edith's romance with that older guy. So, by my reckoning, they're even. So, I do think Mary has been kind of a bitch the way she just rejects Edith's recent olive branches.

Not that I'm anti-Mary by any means. I'm quite fond of her as well. It's just that sometimes she needs someone to smack her and tell her to put herself in someone else's shoes for a moment. I thought she was awfully dense about Matthew's understandable desire not to take any inheritance from his dead ex-fiance's father. She's just such a snob and I keep hoping that some of Matthew's middle class values will rub off on her. (Sometimes, I'm very afraid it will end up the other way. There are times where I swear I can see Matthew slowly turning into a younger clone of Robert right before our eyes.)

I agree that Laura Carmichael has a much wider range of facial expressions than Michelle Dockery. Edith just has the best facial reactions to things, often in very subtle ways in scenes where she doesn't have much to say but you can clearly read everything that's going through her head.

You know who else has great facial expressions? Amy Nuttall as Ethel. Not only does she have a great face, but she also has this amazing way of moving her limbs when she gets excited or startled. She's like Olive Oyl. I also love those big, floppy hats of hers.

SiorX wrote:

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I think Julian Fellowes is a writer with a genuine interest in what life was like for all different kinds of people - not just as stock character, but as personalities. And a refreshing belief that most people are basically decent and want to do right by each other.

I think that's why I love the show so much. Thing is, I usually HATE shows like this and I never really watch Masterpiece otherwise (except for Sherlock and occasionally Inspector Lewis). But I'm a total Downton Addict! And I think that comes down to how well sketched the characters are and how they're all, deep down, genuinely decent people (except for Thomas & O'Brien). The characters are so well done that you can do a scene where they only say a single line and you instantly get a snapshot of who each one is. Now, that's down to acting as much as writing, but it's all awesome!

So far, the only character I really can't put my finger on is Jimmy. I'm not sure what his deal is. Mostly, he seems like he only exists to be eye candy for the girls and a pawn in Mrs. O'Brien's schemes against Thomas. It's like, he's constantly flirting/playing-hard-to-get with Daisy, Ivey, and any other skirt in view but doesn't seem to have any genuine interest in any of them.

[Winged Victory]

SiorX wrote:

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I'm firmly of the opinion that Bates killed his wife. Not that the show means us to think that, but that the entire thing makes a lot more sense if he's an amazing manipulator who has them all fooled. The actual solution to the thing made no sense to me at all in terms of motive.

Perhaps the final scene of the series will be Bates dropping his cane and walking out of a police station and like that, he's gone. A la Kevin Spacey from The Usual Suspects.

I love the show. Can't wait for tomorrow's season finale, although I've been spoiled about a certain character. I'll still watch!

[The Borgified Corpse]

Crossover theory: Mary conveniently killed off Lavinia Swire by asking for a favor from her grandfather, Death.

[auntiehill]

Just watched the season 3 finale.

Well.................................fuck.

[Winged Victory]

Same here. I'm just a mess of tears...

I'd been spoiled weeks ago about the ending, but watching it tonight was still shocking. He would have been a wonderful father.

[Frontier]

So then the answer to "am I missing something?" is a resounding "no"? LOL

IE, it's not some deep morality tale, something showing the wrongs of class-based nonsense.

It's just fluff that people, for some reason, seem to like for reasons few can put their finger on.

OK. That's what I thought. Makes me feel better for not liking it, lol.

[Samurai8472]

The Borgified Corpse wrote:

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Crossover theory: Mary conveniently killed off Lavinia Swire by asking for a favor from her grandfather, Death.

Downton-5

MI-5 + Downton Abbey crossover

Edith shots Tom in the back and stolen uranium rods end up in Carlton's room.

[OmahaStar]

The Borgified Corpse wrote:

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Crossover theory: Mary conveniently killed off Lavinia Swire by asking for a favor from her grandfather, Death.

Ah, now I'm missing Mulberry all over again.

[cardinal biggles]

Frontier wrote:

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IE, it's not some deep morality tale, something showing the wrongs of class-based nonsense.

It's just fluff that people, for some reason, seem to like for reasons few can put their finger on.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing.