Young Justice, Green Lantern return January 5th

[Christopher]

DarKush wrote:

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I also liked how the show has handled Black Manta. My favorite scene was where he blew up his own men to get to Aqualad.

And hurt Kaldur in the process, IIRC. He may love his son, but his anger is more potent and dangerous.

[DarKush]

^
That's what I like about him.

Though to be fair to Black Manta, he didn't mean to hurt his son. He clearly showed concern when he saw him pinned under the ripped up door. For all Manta knew, Aqualad was still in his bed and wouldn't have been hurt by the explosion. His love for his son, in addition to his anger, got the best of him.

[Christopher]

^Yeah, but abusive parents "don't mean to" hurt their kids either, or at least they don't think they do. Some people love, but love badly or corruptedly. I mean, come on, realistically, anyone in that room could've been hurt or killed by shrapnel from the explosion, regardless of their position. (Hell, realistically, the overpressure shock of the blast in that enclosed space could've killed everyone in the room and the hallway.) It's an insanely reckless thing to do, using explosives to blow open a door that your own son is on the other side of. Manta may love his son, but he's still a bad guy, and that excess aggression in pursuit of his goals and failure to consider the harm his actions can cause are part and parcel of what make him evil.

[sojourner]

Then again. he may have trusted his men to use the proper charge to open the door without causing undo injury/damage. Which they obviously failed to. He needs to hire more competent replacements.

[Kestrel]

Agreed. One of the things I really like about Manta is that he does genuinely love his son from all that we've seen.

Man, these last three episodes have been of such high quality. And they certainly didn't waste any time showing us Blue Beetle's mistake in trusting Green Beetle! Poor Jaime, trying to do what's right ended up backfiring so massively. This show does love its brainwashed heroes doesn't it? I wonder if we'll see him returned to normal before the last few minutes of the finale? That might be where the Runaways come back into play.

Although I am somewhat confused about them - why does the Light need its own team of young heroes when they're partnering with the Reach? Are they planning to betray the Reach as well, hoping the League and Team weaken them enough that the Light can take over? It didn't seem like Luthor was recruiting them just to put them back in the Reach's service.

I only knew Mongul from "For the Man Who Has Everything," so the War World was completely new to me. Although I had the strangest urge to trust everything Mongul was saying, such an honest-sounding voice. That was definitely a kickass episode, I love getting to see the whole team and much of the League in action. They certainly aren't playing down how incredibly powerful Fate is, are they? My one gripe is that the Karen and Mal stuff hasn't been doing anything for me all season and I wish we could've spent more time with Cassie or Babs or Tim or Gar. Still, it was good to see Mal keeping the Guardian identity and to have that thread closed.

Did anybody else expect the world to react somewhat more... alarmed when the Reach said "Oh no we can't do anything we're sooo helpless" only to launch a massive armada from the oceans moments later? Granted, they made a huge sacrifice to try and stop War World, but somebody surely put together that they had to come from somewhere and were undeclared for so long?

Also, about the Guardians/Reach treaty. Shouldn't the presence of 3 Green Lanterns make Earth officially "Guardian" territory? Or can the Reach go around to any planet so long as they're invited - what if a faction on Oa wanted to invite the Reach? And I suppose Guy and Hal are both off-planet at the time?

I kind of expected somebody to die in this last episode, probably one of the villains. Most likely Sportsmaster - either to Manta or Deathstroke - but I'm glad they didn't waste such a great villain yet. And who ever expected that to be said about Sportsmaster of all villains. I'm impressed they managed to find a way to keep Kaldur and Artemis both undercover while getting M'Gann, Cheshire and Sportsmaster out of there.

You know what this episode was noticeably lacking in though? Roy Harper. We haven't seen Red Arrow since... hmm, Original Roy went after Luthor, have we? I wouldn't necessarily expect him to come along on a mission to kill, even a villain, but I was somewhat surprised we didn't see him at all, maybe with Lian. Is she meant to be a secret I guess, and Roy's with the League? Arsenal was very obnoxious in his first outing with the Team and most of the War World episode, but I really liked his near-breakdown over being taken captive and then escaping. But where was he in the next episode, maybe after the Beetles had left and Nightwing was doing detective work?

I wonder where the rest of the Team (everybody but... Nightwing, Miss M, Arsenal, and Lagoon Boy right?) got Boom-Tubed to? Reach imprisonment I guess? I assume not Apokolips, though I do wonder if the season will end with the Reach having been dealt with but Gordon Godfrey's true identity being revealed/ominous Darkseid appearance.



Also, I'm wishing now I'd watched Green Lantern from the beginning.

[Silvercrest]

Christopher wrote:

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I have a hard time believing, however, that Aya could be so simpleminded as to think that the way to assess the relative power of love and hate was to stage a physical combat between them. That's kind of a non sequitur, and too stupidly literal-minded for a superintelligence like her.

That was pretty strange.

I wonder how much more we'll see of Carol as Star Sapphire. I imagine she'll be involved in the season finale, but will she return before that?

I'm envisioning Carol thinking, "I can deal with the mask, but I am not parading around in spike heels and a bathing suit!"

Mr. Adventure wrote:

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Aya's mistaken about being emotionless, she's being driven by hate (or love) more than ever, she just doesn't realize it. And nothing pushes rational beings over the deep end than that.

Actually I was kind of wondering if her damage and her jilted status caused her to reject her emotions, but that allowed her to get infected with the Manhunters' anti-emotion programming. I'm probably overthinking this.

sojourner wrote:

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Then again. he may have trusted his men to use the proper charge to open the door without causing undo injury/damage. Which they obviously failed to. He needs to hire more competent replacements.

I somehow missed the fact that he hit his own men.

Kestrel wrote:

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Did anybody else expect the world to react somewhat more... alarmed when the Reach said "Oh no we can't do anything we're sooo helpless" only to launch a massive armada from the oceans moments later?

I posted that after the last episode. Glad someone else is seeing the same thing.

I'm impressed they managed to find a way to keep Kaldur and Artemis both undercover while getting M'Gann, Cheshire and Sportsmaster out of there.

I was a little surprised-- I assumed they were going to ditch the mission and just get their people out. But Mrs. Silvercrest pointed out that they're going to need someone down there to help deal with the Reach fleet (if it's still submerged).

Did Deathstroke appear out of nowhere in that battle? I thought he was on a different ship.

You know what this episode was noticeably lacking in though? Roy Harper. We haven't seen Red Arrow since... hmm, Original Roy went after Luthor, have we?

I was joking that he was on babysitting duty, but they actually covered that.

[Kestrel]

Silvercrest wrote:

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Did Deathstroke appear out of nowhere in that battle? I thought he was on a different ship.

He was, but presumably when Miss M "accidentally" shot the camera out while trying to protect Kaldur he decided to catch up and come aboard - right about the same time Crusher and Jade were leaving.

Although I do wonder why he decided to suppress Miss M's telepathy if he thought she was trying to save Kaldur.

Silvercrest wrote:

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I was joking that he was on babysitting duty, but they actually covered that.

"Roy dear, I need you to watch Lian for a couple days."

"Um, sure. Any particular reason?"

"Oh you know, father-daughter time."

"Alright, try not to get killed. And bring back a souvenir, you know how Lian loves those."

[Mr. Adventure]

Kestrel wrote:

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Also, I'm wishing now I'd watched Green Lantern from the beginning.

I tried initially and didn't care for it but gave it a chance later and it's grabbed me but I've missed a bunch in between.

[DarKush]

Christopher wrote:

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^Yeah, but abusive parents "don't mean to" hurt their kids either, or at least they don't think they do. Some people love, but love badly or corruptedly. I mean, come on, realistically, anyone in that room could've been hurt or killed by shrapnel from the explosion, regardless of their position. (Hell, realistically, the overpressure shock of the blast in that enclosed space could've killed everyone in the room and the hallway.) It's an insanely reckless thing to do, using explosives to blow open a door that your own son is on the other side of. Manta may love his son, but he's still a bad guy, and that excess aggression in pursuit of his goals and failure to consider the harm his actions can cause are part and parcel of what make him evil.

Christopher,

I think your usage of the word 'realistically' gave me pause. This is a cartoon about super powered teens or young adults, so I don't think we can judge it by 'realistic' standards. I think Manta's actions fit with his character as depicted on the show thus far and that's fine with me. Manta's action was reckless, but he's a bad guy as you pointed out, so his disregard for the lives of others and his single-minded focus to reach his son despite the damage that might cause works for his character and makes sense in that regard. I could also see Manta being arrogant enough to believe that his eye beams were precise enough not to cause any collateral damage that would concern him or hurt his son.

[Christopher]

Kestrel wrote:

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Agreed. One of the things I really like about Manta is that he does genuinely love his son from all that we've seen.

I don't dispute that. There seems to be a misconception here that I'm arguing with that premise. I'm absolutely not. I'm just elaborating on it, pointing out that, yes, he loves his son, but he's also a bad person, so he manifests that love in an unhealthy way at times, for instance, letting his fondness for the use of force override his judgment to the extent that he endangered his own son in the act of trying to save him. I guess you could say that, as a villain, he's not that skilled at the whole saving-people thing, so he used inappropriately reckless methods and did more harm than good.

Although I am somewhat confused about them - why does the Light need its own team of young heroes when they're partnering with the Reach? Are they planning to betray the Reach as well, hoping the League and Team weaken them enough that the Light can take over? It didn't seem like Luthor was recruiting them just to put them back in the Reach's service.

Of course they're planning to betray the Reach. Supervillains always plan on betraying their partners and seizing all the power for themselves. It's in the handbook.

I only knew Mongul from "For the Man Who Has Everything," so the War World was completely new to me.

Warworld has been portrayed before in the animated Justice League and Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but in both cases it was just a planet that Mongul ruled. This is the first time it's been portrayed in animation as the Death Star-like artificial world it is in the comics.

Although I had the strangest urge to trust everything Mongul was saying, such an honest-sounding voice.

None can resist the power of Keith David's voice...

My one gripe is that the Karen and Mal stuff hasn't been doing anything for me all season and I wish we could've spent more time with Cassie or Babs or Tim or Gar.

Yeah, it would be nice to get to know Wonder Girl and Batgirl better. Although I can't fault the showrunners for wanting to spread out the focus to a more ethnically diverse group.

Kestrel wrote:

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Although I do wonder why he decided to suppress Miss M's telepathy if he thought she was trying to save Kaldur.

Again, villainous impulses overriding compassionate ones. He didn't trust Miss M when he couldn't watch her, so he shut off her telepathy as a precaution. Leaving her powers enabled so she could keep helping Kaldur would've required trust, and that's not part of the supervillain mindset.

[Hartzilla2007]

Christopher wrote:

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Again, villainous impulses overriding compassionate ones. He didn't trust Miss M when he couldn't watch her, so he shut off her telepathy as a precaution. Leaving her powers enabled so she could keep helping Kaldur would've required trust, and that's not part of the supervillain mindset.

Actually he suppressed Miss M's telepathy before the camera was taken out, hence why she took out the camera so she could explain things to Cheshire without Deathstroke watching.

[Christopher]

^Oh, yeah. Well, then, I guess his thinking was that with the situation heating up, he wanted to tighten his control on whoever he saw as an enemy, including M'gann.

[Kestrel]

Christopher wrote:

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I guess you could say that, as a villain, he's not that skilled at the whole saving-people thing, so he used inappropriately reckless methods and did more harm than good.

I think that's fair, yeah.

Christopher wrote:

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None can resist the power of Keith David's voice...

"Connor, why are you punching Goliath!?"

"Stop it Cassie, that's Captain/Counselor/Admiral Anderson, he's a good guy!"

Christopher wrote:

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Yeah, it would be nice to get to know Wonder Girl and Batgirl better. Although I can't fault the showrunners for wanting to spread out the focus to a more ethnically diverse group.

Legit point, to be sure. Rocket's another one I should have mentioned too - I have the feeling we might not find out who she's marrying, if it's anybody important, because learning that was planned for season 3 - because she seemed like a really fun character that never got much chance to shine. Maybe the upcoming video game will give her more to do?

It's more that Mal and Karen's "difficulties" have just... annoyed me for some reason, I dunno. Seeing her work with Ray Palmer is fun, seeing him take up the Guardian suit too. Meh, I'm just griping now.

I've really liked how much focus Jaime has gotten - I think he's become the definitive Blue Beetle by this point between various media portrayals, something Ryan Choi for example wasn't able to do as Atom.

Christopher wrote:

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^Oh, yeah. Well, then, I guess his thinking was that with the situation heating up, he wanted to tighten his control on whoever he saw as an enemy, including M'gann.

That's a reasonable explanation, yeah. Plus another possibility occurred to me that he might have anticipated her actual plan of using telepathy to her advantage to collude with Cheshire and escape somehow while making the fight "look good."

[Gone Troppo]

I've watched these shows from the beginning and hate that they're being cancelled. Why can't Cartoon Network rotate Green Lantern/Young Justice with the new shows? That way, there's new episodes most of the time. If CN is blaming the ratings, they didn't help themselves with the erractic schedule or the abrupt hiatus last Oct. Why should I bother watching the new shows anyway? Most likely, they're going to be treated the same way.

[Mr. Adventure]

Gone Troppo wrote:

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I've watched these shows from the beginning and hate that they're being cancelled. Why can't Cartoon Network rotate Green Lantern/Young Justice with the new shows? That way, there's new episodes most of the time. If CN is blaming the ratings, they didn't help themselves with the erractic schedule or the abrupt hiatus last Oct. Why should I bother watching the new shows anyway? Most likely, they're going to be treated the same way.

From what I've seen I think CN thinks of their programming as "product" in the coldest sense. You move it while it's hot, drop it when it's not and there's not much sympathy involved.

That said, they do seem to give a free hand to creators to try things so it's not all negative. I think YJ and GL knew enough to think in terms of season plotting so I think at least the season's threads will have a conclusion.