Kai Winn

WesleysDisciple · February 13 2013, 11:32 PM

I have too many questions on Kai winn to list all at once... heres one question in particular

Think she saw the errors of her ways right before she died or not

On a side note... Any idea why Damar didnt TELL Kira to tell sisko about Dukat in disguise... Was it just vestigial loyalty to Dukat?

DavidLeeRoth · February 13 2013, 11:47 PM

Well, she had no problem releasing the Pah-Wraiths until they rejected her. My guess is, if the choice was between Dukat and the Pah-Wraiths and the "Alpha Quadrant in flames" or accepting Sisko as the emissary to the prophets, she would rather go with the latter; which is what she did.

I don't think Dumar thought of mentioning Dukat to Kira. Dumar's main concern was freeing Cardassia from the Dominion, and Dukat asking to look like a Bajorian seemed irrelevant. And yes, he was still loyal to his old friend.

JirinPanthosa · February 14 2013, 01:20 AM

Kai Winn's first choice would have been to be the emissary herself, to gain power through the Prophets.

They told her to screw off, so she tried to gain power through the Pah'Wraiths.

But, Winn never cared about the Pah'Wraiths or wanted to destroy Bajor, she was seriously convinced they would just use her as their 'Emissary'. Had she known they were just using her she would never have gone along. So in a way she did 'the error of her ways' in that she was stupid and made a mistake, but I don't think she ever thought she was not entitled to their power.

teacake · February 14 2013, 01:40 AM

I wonder what she would have done differently if she could go back.. really being used by either the pah wraiths or the prophets was not something she was ever going to be completely happy with.

WesleysDisciple · February 14 2013, 01:50 AM

any guesses, why After the dominion plotline starts in earnest... bajors internal politics all but vanishes from DS9?

Ive noticed it happens almost suddenly... Id have liked seeing more factional infighting myself.

teacake · February 14 2013, 05:26 AM

The factional fighting in the Terok Nor trilogy is great, very realistic.

Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars.

Sindatur · February 14 2013, 11:43 PM

teacake wrote:

The factional fighting in the Terok Nor trilogy is great, very realistic.

Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars.

Yea, I think that was one of the changes made to shore up ratings, along with Worf and The Defiant.

Many (even fans on this board) disliked the Bajoran Politics, and it apparently drove some away. I personally love Politics and Religion in my SciFi/Fantasy, but, it bores alot of folks

Wicca who Wonta · February 15 2013, 08:52 PM

I think Kai Winn used religion and her beliefs to gain power. If she couldn't use religion she would have used something else. I don't think she saw the errors of her ways. She probably just thought she had bet on the wrong horse (i.e religion).

I think DS9 did an excellent job at showing the pros and cons of religion.

Dream · February 15 2013, 09:09 PM

teacake wrote:

Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars.

Yeah, why are all the Bajoran men so damn BORING? Every episode with Bareil or Shakaar put me to sleep!

What did Kira ever see in them?

Sindatur · February 15 2013, 09:30 PM

Dream wrote:

teacake wrote:

Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars.

Yeah, why are all the Bajoran men so damn BORING? Every episode with Bareil or Shakaar put me to sleep!

What did Kira ever see in them?

Memories of the Occupation and all the terrible things she had to do in The Resistance made it difficult for her to sleep at night. But the nights she had a date with on of them, she slept like a baby

Enterprise is Great · February 15 2013, 10:14 PM

WesleysDisciple wrote:

any guesses, why After the dominion plotline starts in earnest... bajors internal politics all but vanishes from DS9?

Ive noticed it happens almost suddenly... Id have liked seeing more factional infighting myself.

Paramount did audience research during early DS9 and they found out that many viewers disliked Bajoran politics/religion so they had the producers tone that stuff down.

WesleysDisciple · February 15 2013, 10:20 PM

WE still managed to see the end of the 5-7th seasons incorporate bajoran religion.

garaks the best · February 16 2013, 02:18 AM

Sindatur wrote:

teacake wrote:

The factional fighting in the Terok Nor trilogy is great, very realistic.

Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars.

Yea, I think that was one of the changes made to shore up ratings, along with Worf and The Defiant.

Many (even fans on this board) disliked the Bajoran Politics, and it apparently drove some away. I personally love Politics and Religion in my SciFi/Fantasy, but, it bores alot of folks

Me too, i wish more scifi shows would include stuff like this as it adds more depth to universe they are in i think.

LiLiKitty · February 16 2013, 03:03 AM

WesleysDisciple wrote:

any guesses, why After the dominion plotline starts in earnest... bajors internal politics all but vanishes from DS9?

Ive noticed it happens almost suddenly... Id have liked seeing more factional infighting myself.

I'm not sure if the question is regarding the Final Chapter specifically, but here's my answer, just in case. My understanding is that the writers made a mistake with the timing of things when they started the Final Chapter arc.

They thought at first that Dukat & Kai Winn's story could run concurrent with the Cardassian Rebellion story. But then it became obvious that Damar's story was a lot more complicated (those darn Cardassians!) and had to take place over a longer time period than what was going on with Dukat and Winn.

It's why they made Dukat blind there for a while in order to stretch out his story's timing so it would coincide with the end of the war. It's still rather awkward, unfortunately.

WesleysDisciple · February 16 2013, 03:17 AM

Am rewatching Emissary right now, for the first time, now that I think of it, since high school maybe 13 or 14 years.

I think that the scene with him explaining the concept of time to the prophets would work better if this was NOT part of some grand scheme they cooked up...

MAybe it was just ONE Prophet, his mother who did so, but... still it seems devalued.

February 13 2013, 11:32 PM	#1
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Kai Winn I have too many questions on Kai winn to list all at once... heres one question in particular Think she saw the errors of her ways right before she died or not On a side note... Any idea why Damar didnt TELL Kira to tell sisko about Dukat in disguise... Was it just vestigial loyalty to Dukat?

February 13 2013, 11:47 PM	#2
DavidLeeRoth Lieutenant	Re: Kai Winn Well, she had no problem releasing the Pah-Wraiths until they rejected her. My guess is, if the choice was between Dukat and the Pah-Wraiths and the "Alpha Quadrant in flames" or accepting Sisko as the emissary to the prophets, she would rather go with the latter; which is what she did. I don't think Dumar thought of mentioning Dukat to Kira. Dumar's main concern was freeing Cardassia from the Dominion, and Dukat asking to look like a Bajorian seemed irrelevant. And yes, he was still loyal to his old friend.

February 14 2013, 01:20 AM	#3
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Kai Winn Kai Winn's first choice would have been to be the emissary herself, to gain power through the Prophets. They told her to screw off, so she tried to gain power through the Pah'Wraiths. But, Winn never cared about the Pah'Wraiths or wanted to destroy Bajor, she was seriously convinced they would just use her as their 'Emissary'. Had she known they were just using her she would never have gone along. So in a way she did 'the error of her ways' in that she was stupid and made a mistake, but I don't think she ever thought she was not entitled to their power.

February 14 2013, 01:40 AM	#4
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Kai Winn I wonder what she would have done differently if she could go back.. really being used by either the pah wraiths or the prophets was not something she was ever going to be completely happy with. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

February 14 2013, 01:50 AM	#5
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Re: Kai Winn any guesses, why After the dominion plotline starts in earnest... bajors internal politics all but vanishes from DS9? Ive noticed it happens almost suddenly... Id have liked seeing more factional infighting myself.

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February 14 2013, 05:26 AM	#6
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Kai Winn The factional fighting in the Terok Nor trilogy is great, very realistic. Maybe they got rid of the internal politics because they realized so many Bajorans were dead dull.. for every Kai Winn there are a dozen Bareils and Shakaars. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

February 15 2013, 08:52 PM	#8
Wicca who Wonta Vice Admiral Location: Sweden	Re: Kai Winn I think Kai Winn used religion and her beliefs to gain power. If she couldn't use religion she would have used something else. I don't think she saw the errors of her ways. She probably just thought she had bet on the wrong horse (i.e religion). I think DS9 did an excellent job at showing the pros and cons of religion.

February 15 2013, 10:20 PM	#12
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Re: Kai Winn WE still managed to see the end of the 5-7th seasons incorporate bajoran religion.

February 16 2013, 03:17 AM	#15
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Re: Kai Winn Am rewatching Emissary right now, for the first time, now that I think of it, since high school maybe 13 or 14 years. I think that the scene with him explaining the concept of time to the prophets would work better if this was NOT part of some grand scheme they cooked up... MAybe it was just ONE Prophet, his mother who did so, but... still it seems devalued.