More Star Wars films announced

[cooleddie74]

What can I say? The Star Wars universe can be an inconsistent and frustrating mess when it wants. Something's always conflicting with another thing.

A lot of it seems to be up to personal interpretation. Lucas and other writers seem to revel in Obi-Wan's own words to Luke in Jedi.

[The Mirrorball Man]

tighr wrote:

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That's all well and good, but do the books explain why this super-smart Emperor guy decided to let Luke and Leia live?

Hubris. It always works.

[cooleddie74]

And it's always possible (hell, we're talking the Lucas universe here) that the Emperor knew Padmé survived her husband's attack but never that she gave birth to twins. He might have believed that her baby (singular) died with her. The Dark Side's a very powerful thing, but come on. Vader was standing just a few inches from his own daughter on multiple occasions and never realized it.

It and its practicioners obviously have their flaws and limitations.

[davejames]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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I'd never call Boba Fett a "punk," but yeah his supposed demise at the hands of a half-blind man holding a long metal pole was probably the least satisfying death in all of modern sci-fi/fantasy, and that includes Tasha Yar being whacked by a talking oil slick and James T. Kirk being flattened and croaking under a metal bridge.

Yeah, Fett probably deserved better, but his death was still part of a very fun and exciting action sequence so I've always been kinda okay with it.

And we at least DID get to see him use some of his cool weaponry, so it's not like he didn't put up any kind of fight at all.

cooleddie74 wrote:

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Palpatine's death was remarkably satisfying. Dying at the hands of your own apprentice, the man he repeatedly lied to about his wife's death? The guy he manipulated and twisted ever since he was a boy and helped turn into one of the galaxy's great monsters?

I always USED to think so, but now, after all the screentime he got in the prequels, and after that huge, epic battle he had with Yoda in ROTS where he was throwing giant podiums around with the Force, his death in ROTJ now seems kind of... quick and anticlimactic to me.

I realize this is many years later, but you'd still think he'd be able to put up more of a fight against Vader than THAT, considering what we've seen him do with the Force before.

[CorporalCaptain]

davejames wrote:

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I realize this is many years later, but you'd still think he'd be able to put up more of a fight against Vader than THAT, considering what we've seen him do with the Force before.

I might think so, if Episode VI had been made after Episode III was in the can. But it wasn't.

There are many ways that the PT doesn't match up with the OT. I found the Emperor's death satisfying in 1983, and I still find it that way today, even after seeing all the whiz-bang of the PT.

Sometimes "less" is more. ROTJ still manages to be better than at least 2 of the 3 PT films, and it's a toss-up comparing it to ROTS. On the other hand, ANH and TESB are hands-down better than all of them.

[cooleddie74]

I just chalk it up (in-universe, at least) to the Emperor being overcome with hubris at the moment he's torturing and trying to kill Luke with his Sith lightning. He's so engrossed in destroying this new, rebellious and uncooperative threat to his Empire that he doesn't sense Vader connecting with the good that's left within himself and becoming Anakin Skywalker once more.

When Anakin grabbed the Emperor to throw him down the reactor shaft he took his former Master completely by surprise. Palpatine could do little in his moment of surprise and shock other than start screaming and let his lightning bolts flail wildly out of control.

But if you want a real world explanation what CC said is what I subscribe to. Jedi was filmed more than 20 years before Sith and in the early eighties Lucas hadn't a clue how the Emperor would be portrayed in any prequel films....provided he ever got around to even making any of them.

[davejames]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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Sometimes "less" is more. ROTJ still manages to be better than at least 2 of the 3 PT films, and it's a toss-up comparing it to ROTS. On the other hand, ANH and TESB are hands-down better than all of them.

I'd give ROTJ the edge myself, just because it's fun and still has a bunch of characters we like and care about.

ROTS might be appropriately epic and have lots of cool-looking sequences, but I still find myself unable to really care about any of it.

[cooleddie74]

My current personal ranking of the six existing Saga episodes and the big-screen Clone Wars animated film:

1. V- ESB
2. IV- ANH
3. VI- ROTJ
4. III- ROTS
5. I- TPM
6. II- AOTC
7. The Clone Wars

I'll think about where the two Ewok movies fall later.

[CorporalCaptain]

davejames wrote:

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I'd give ROTJ the edge myself, just because it's fun and still has a bunch of characters we like and care about.

ROTS might be appropriately epic and have lots of cool-looking sequences, but I still find myself unable to really care about any of it.

That's a good way of looking at it. With that in mind, my ranking, best to worst, by episode number: 4 5 6 3 1 2.

"The Clone Wars" exists in an alternate universe along side "The Faithful Wookiee".

[davejames]

I'm surprised so many fans still rank AOTC lower than TPM. Yeah the plot might have been a jumbled mess, but at least the tone was a bit darker and more badass. And it had FAR fewer Gungans, Neimodians, and annoying little kids in it.

[cooleddie74]

I can't begin to speak for CC, but as for myself I just feel that Episode I has more of a "Star Wars feel" to it than Clones. TPM had moments of introspection and a sense of wonder that Episode II just didn't in spite of the Padmé assassination plot mystery, the secrets behind the Clones and the huge battle on Geonosis. Clones is a good movie....none of the six Saga films are bad. But for a Saga film it's just the weakest and least emotionally rewarding of all of them to date, and the atrocious romantic scenes between Anakin and Padmé don't help one bit.

Clones feels more like a space action film with SW elements thrown in. TPM for all its flaws feels like an actual SW movie with more emotional scope and range.

[CorporalCaptain]

AOTC gets bogged down in the middle section.

On the plus side, I think the final scene in AOTC, the marriage of Anakin and Padmé, is the best closing scene of all six films. That includes ANH, which is second. I just think Anakin and Padmé's love theme [or whatever it's called] is magnificent. It has just the right dash of evoking star-crossed lovers while maintaining a common melodic heritage with Obi-Wan's theme. The way the scene is cut, and the way it leads into the end credits, is just tops to me.

I also like the part earlier in the film when Padmé declares her love for Anakin, as they are getting taken out to the arena, again to the same music.

Of course, the merging of the OT stormtroopers with Boba Fett was utterly brilliant, and I can't say that enough.

Obi-Wan's fight with Jango was pretty well done, although I don't like some of the jumps. The speeder chase through the capital was nice. The end battle is of course a blast. I didn't even hate Yoda's duel with Dooku too much.

But, the middle part was just plodding and ultimately boring; it drags the rest of the film down. Lucas's way of curring back and forth across the galaxy without resolving anything pretty much reached it's nadir in that film. Oh, and I'd almost blocked out the scenes on Naboo earlier in the film, but now they're coming back to me.

[cooleddie74]

I think that's a very fair assessment. The middle third of the film along with most of the Anakin-Padmé romantic interactions really weigh the film down because the story goes nowhere and the wooden acting between Hayden and Natalie elicits more embarrassed chuckles and eyerolls than it does sympathy for what the two characters are experiencing.

The movie starts of really well, then drags like a tired snail with almost no reward and finally delivers a slam-bang action sequence and finale worthy of the better films. But that middle....yikes. I don't mind Obi-Wan's investigation into the plot to kill Padmé but it takes forever and a day to end up in Dooku's clutches on Geonosis and by the time Obi-Wan evades Jango Fett and lands there you're checking your watch. The mystery starts off in a way that hooks you (mysterious, unseen cloners? Missing planet in the Jedi Archives? The hell?!) but then just plods along until you're basically glad that Dooku and the Separatists capture Obi-Wan and chain him to that column in the arena.

Anything to get the last part of the film going!

[CorporalClegg]

cooleddie74 wrote:

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My current personal ranking of the six existing Saga episodes and the big-screen Clone Wars animated film:

1. V- ESB
2. IV- ANH
3. VI- ROTJ
4. III- ROTS
5. I- TPM
6. II- AOTC
7. The Clone Wars

I'll think about where the two Ewok movies fall later.

I would rate them about the same. But I'd actually flip-flop TPM and ROTJ. I think TPM is much better than most give it credit for (once you get past Jar-Jar), and I also think ROTJ really struggles at times. I think if it weren't for the nostalgia goggles, most would view it much differently.

In fact, it was the first Star Wars film I ever saw and put me off of the franchise for almost a decade until I finally rented ANH and ESB in high school out of peer pressure.

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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On the plus side, I think the final scene in AOTC, the marriage of Anakin and Padmé, is the best closing scene of all six films.

Agreed. I'll even go a step further and say it's one of the best scenes in the entire saga. The final scene in ROTS is nearly as good.

Say what you will about Lucas, but the guy can frame a shot as well as any of his contemporaries. In some ways, I'd even argue he's better than Kubrick, who was sort of a one-trick pony, in that regard.

[CorporalCaptain]

CorporalClegg wrote:

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Say what you will about Lucas, but the guy can frame a shot as well as any of his contemporaries. In some ways, I'd even argue he's better than Kubrick, who was sort of a one-trick pony, in that regard.

Yep. Agreed about Lucas, and that's an interesting way of putting Kubrick.