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Old February 13 2013, 04:02 PM   #751
Sindatur
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
If anything Aquaman would need the "hardest" movie to overcome the damage Super Friends did to him.
Who the hell remembers the Super Friends? That was 30 years ago. In the meantime, the Justice League cartoon has come out, Justice League Unlimited, Batman: Brave and the Bold, Young Justice, Smallville.

Why does the Super Friends matter, except to a bunch of aging people? Who aren't the target audience?

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. are NOT new characters in the same regards as other movie characters because these characters are decades old and general audiences are going to be scared by that. Thinking they'll have too much weight on them from the past that'll leave them lost and confused.
And speaking as a DC fan for decades, this is ridiculous. Most audiences won't give a rat's ass about the comic history, they didn't for Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Batman, or Spiderman. In fact, because Wonder Woman has been in the public consciousness for so long, it should be EASIER to introduce her... unlike, say, Green Lantern.

Audiences aren't concerned with what happened in issue 55 of Aquaman, they want to know what he can do, AND, more importantly, what is character like... is he funny, is he angry, what does he want... Period. This "weight of past" is genre fans thinking way to hard and not realizing, most of that "weight" is just stuff that isn't really important.
Yea, pretty much, if the general audience has a passing familiarity or none whatsoever, they don't care abut all the different versions of the character from the past, they care about this specific version in this specific movie they are watching
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Old February 13 2013, 04:11 PM   #752
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote:
I mean, when Smallville was on the air, there were a lot of viewers who had no idea that it had anything to do with Superman.
If cluelessness were an Olympic sport, this country could be great again!
Yes, clearly not being familiar with something in pop culture makes someone an idiot.
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Old February 13 2013, 04:46 PM   #753
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I still want a Justice League movie starring Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Zatanna. Not too many characters, a good male to female ratio, different power sources and abilities and easy to introduce.

Batman: I'm permanently pissed off, I fight crazy guys and prefer to lurk in the shadows.
Superman: I'm the sole survivor of a distant planet and have incredible abilities but I grew up here on earth and my mom's pie is the best in the world!
Wonder Woman: I'm an ambassador of peace from an advanced society hidden from the rest of the world, but I won't hesitate to punch your lights out if you force me to.
Cyborg: I'm a cyborg!
Zatanna: I can do magic!

Seriously, the last two aren't well known outside of the comics but they are very basic and well known ideas, the audience will understand them without any big introducton, they are pretty much self explainatory.

Characters I wouldn't use are:
Martian Manhunter (to similar to Superman's origin, one lone survivor from a different planet is enough)
Green Lantern (his movie was a flop, he could work on Justice League but there's no reason to risk stinking up the movie with GL's smell of failure when you have a rhousand other characters to choose from)
Flash (he's fast, everything he can do can be done by Superman ... yes, I kow, he's faster than Superman, whatever, in a 2 hour movie it's easy enough to have Superman be fast enough)
Aquaman (it's hard to make him useful on land, so unless you want to introduce an underwater lair or a secret underwater entrance for him to infiltrate a base or someting, leave him out)
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Old February 13 2013, 05:11 PM   #754
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I don't agree that it's hard to make Aquaman useful on land. Surviving in the ocean depths with their crushing pressure, freezing cold, perpetual darkness, and abundant predatory animals would require truly superhuman strength, endurance, and senses. Far from just "guy who talks to fish," Aquaman would have to be one of the most physically powerful and indestructible members of the League, close to Wonder Woman's or Superman's power levels. He'd be one of its top-tier fighters in any environment. Plus he's a king (literally a king named Arthur), which could certainly make him a distinctive character with a complex backstory (and let's not forget that even in a movie about superheroes, stories are about characters' personalities, relationships, and emotions, not just their physical abilities).

I think Batman: The Brave and the Bold's version of Aquaman is one that other versions of the character would be well advised to emulate. He had that superhuman strength and fighting prowess, and he had the pride and confidence of a king, as well as a flamboyant, bombastic personality that made him a fan favorite and a standout in the show's enormous cast. Plus they gave him Mera's ability to form weapons out of water. Maybe a movie Aquaman could have the same sort of thing that Young Justice's Aqualad had in season 1, reservoirs of water on his costume that he could form hydrokinetically into blades, a shield, etc. (Much like waterbenders in the Avatar animated universe often carry waterskins on their belts so they always have water on hand to manipulate.)
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Old February 13 2013, 05:16 PM   #755
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea, pretty much, if the general audience has a passing familiarity or none whatsoever, they don't care abut all the different versions of the character from the past, they care about this specific version in this specific movie they are watching
Very well said.
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Old February 13 2013, 05:21 PM   #756
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Perhaps a mod should rename this here thread They are not going ahead with a Justice League movie, amirite?!
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Old February 13 2013, 05:26 PM   #757
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yea, pretty much, if the general audience has a passing familiarity or none whatsoever, they don't care abut all the different versions of the character from the past, they care about this specific version in this specific movie they are watching
Very well said.
That goes for the general audience and it goes for me too.
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Old February 13 2013, 06:20 PM   #758
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't agree that it's hard to make Aquaman useful on land. Surviving in the ocean depths with their crushing pressure, freezing cold, perpetual darkness, and abundant predatory animals would require truly superhuman strength, endurance, and senses. Far from just "guy who talks to fish," Aquaman would have to be one of the most physically powerful and indestructible members of the League, close to Wonder Woman's or Superman's power levels.
That's all true but water is still his gimmick, if you don't use it and turn him into another Superman/Wonder Woman type, why use Aquaman at all?
You're also right that he's a king, but Diana is a princess so the royal member of the Justice league seat is already taken.

... gave him Mera's ability to form weapons out of water. Maybe a movie Aquaman could have the same sort of thing that Young Justice's Aqualad had in season 1, reservoirs of water on his costume that he could form hydrokinetically into blades, a shield, etc. (Much like waterbenders in the Avatar animated universe often carry waterskins on their belts so they always have water on hand to manipulate.)
That's an idea I like, it gives him distinctive waterbased abilities. You convinced me, he just became the sixth member of Takeru's Justice League. But that's it, no one else is allowed to join, too many characters fighting for screentime is not good, six heroes is already pushing it.
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Old February 13 2013, 06:43 PM   #759
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
The difficulty in writing DC characters is not that they're too goofy, but that they're too strong.

Superman's power is to do anything that the plot requires, essentially. Writer are fond of pulling new powers out of their assess. But even if you limit him to the basics of flight super-speed, super-strength, and invulnerability, you can't challenge him.
Thor has the power of a god. The Hulk has no upper limit on his physical strength.

Green Lantern can literally do anything, limited only by his willpower and imagination.
Much the same is true of Dr. Strange.

When it comes to superpowers and basic character types, DC and Marvel have been drawing from pretty much the same well for decades. There's not that great a distinction in that respect. The key difference is in the personalities. Marvel characters -- at least in the Stan Lee era -- tend to have more human fallibility, more personal hangups, more vulnerabilities built into their natures. Captain America is the ultimate clean-cut hero, but he's a man out of time struggling to adjust. The Hulk has unlimited power but no control, making him potentially as much villain as hero. Iron Man has unlimited technology, but would die without it. The X-Men can save the world, but that world finds their very existence threatening or intolerable. And so on. What makes Marvel's characters distinct from DC's is that their Achilles heels aren't a radioactive rock or a particular color of the spectrum, but are either personal hangups or intrinsic downsides of the very things that make them heroes.

So it's not about how strong the characters are or what their powers are like. It's about how they're portrayed as people, how fallible and relatable they are. No matter how much power they have, the key is to find a way to challenge them on a personal level, an emotional level.
This is why i prefer Marvel to DC.. Marvel's characters are for the most part more interesting in their flaws (granted.. i have only superficial knowledge about DC heroes apart from Superman and Batman).

However Marvel is not above releasing crap or questionable actions.. i'm reminded especially of fan favorite Wolverine who comes back from any wound possible. He's literally been torn in half by the Hulk or burnt down to his skeleton only taking him a few panels to be fully healed up again

Apart from that Marvel and DC are quite similar.. they even have similar powersets for many characters (Quicksilver/Flash, Hawkeye/Green Arrow etc) so it just comes down to background and personal preference.

Moviewise Marvel has clearly the upper hand.. almost anything DC does now including building up their universe with stand alones leading to a JL movie would just reek of copying their archrival however they can't just do Superman and Batman movies infinitely.. at some point the formula would just wear off.

However they really need to get lucky one day and have the kickstarter movie for their universe.. Green Lantern failed to do it and Nolan's Batman was for all intents and purposes removed from the main universe. Marvel got lucky with a set of stand alone popular movies until they hit paydirt with Iron Man.

I can only with luck to DC to pull that off too.. i'd like to see some really good DC movies and am very much looking forward to see the new Superman.
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Old February 13 2013, 07:04 PM   #760
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

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Perhaps a mod should rename this here thread They are not going ahead with a Justice League movie, amirite?!
Or They Will NEVER go ahead with a Justice League movie?
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Old February 13 2013, 07:52 PM   #761
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

WB or someone should just stop posting updates on a movie that's not even moving forward yet. There's nothing to show for at the moment.

On the other hand WB needs to let people know "Hey, we're working on it!"
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Old February 13 2013, 08:03 PM   #762
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
Perhaps a mod should rename this here thread They are not going ahead with a Justice League movie, amirite?!
Or They Will NEVER go ahead with a Justice League movie?



♪♫ They... are never, ever, ever... making a
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Old February 13 2013, 08:33 PM   #763
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I really dont think the general audience cares if they copy Marvel or not. Its just so much board fodder for the geeks to rave on about. All the general audience wants is to be entertained for two hours and not feel like they wasted their time and money. You could use Justice League Detroit for all they care, just make a good movie and in they will go popcorn in hand.
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Old February 13 2013, 08:49 PM   #764
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Icemizer wrote: View Post
I really dont think the general audience cares if they copy Marvel or not. Its just so much board fodder for the geeks to rave on about. All the general audience wants is to be entertained for two hours and not feel like they wasted their time and money. You could use Justice League Detroit for all they care, just make a good movie and in they will go popcorn in hand.
To say nothing of the fact that The General (non-comic reading) audience has no idea the difference between DC and Marvel, they're all just comic book heroes.
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Old February 13 2013, 11:29 PM   #765
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Icemizer wrote: View Post
I really dont think the general audience cares if they copy Marvel or not. Its just so much board fodder for the geeks to rave on about. All the general audience wants is to be entertained for two hours and not feel like they wasted their time and money. You could use Justice League Detroit for all they care, just make a good movie and in they will go popcorn in hand.
Justice League Antarctica or no Justice League at all.
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