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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 12 2013, 09:55 AM   #16
ZapBrannigan
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Here’s another case I’ve thought about:

In "Obsession," (spoiler alert) Kirk sets off a bomb that rips away half a planet's atmosphere and presumably ends all life there. The remaster adds a cool touch, showing the planet slightly scarred as the ship pulls away at the end. Note that the original fx showed you nothing of the damage done.

I found myself wishing CBS had done a little more, like showing a debris cloud erupting from the now-dead planet's pulverized crust. It would clash with the happy ending and upbeat music score as the Enterprise sails away, but maybe that very clash would add a jolt of realism and irony to the episode.

The macho, non-hippie '60s ethos (which I love), where the good guys can blow up a whole planet and think nothing of it, and Now it's Miller Time, would be highlighted and recognized better with more vivid planetary devastation in the new fx.

It would up the ante a little on the portrait of Kirk as a space cowboy who plays by nobody’s rules but his own. He wasn’t going by the Carol Marcus ethos (“there can’t be so much as a microbe…”), based on the fear that sentient life might evolve billions of years from now if only we don't disrupt things. He would have sputtered at that and said “You’ve got to be kidding me.”
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Old February 12 2013, 12:16 PM   #17
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
the good guys can blow up a whole planet and think nothing of it, and Now it's Miller Time ...

the Carol Marcus ethos ... based on the fear that sentient life might evolve billions of years from now if only we don't disrupt things.
I agree with this change, though I haven't seen it yet. It would contrast the ultra-left policies that aim to completely immobilize us—such as preventing a desert city from repairing its water works because it might threaten the habitat of an endangered owl whose actual presence in the area is ambiguous.

It would clash with the happy ending and upbeat music score as the Enterprise sails away
Off-topic, but the one clash that always stands out in my mind is the ending of "The Paradise Syndrome." There is sad music as the titles roll, and Kirk's pregnant wife dies in his arms. Cymbal crash! Then the Enterprise galloping off into the sunset music.
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Old February 12 2013, 05:15 PM   #18
Robert Comsol
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Maurice wrote: View Post
How far? To the end of the driveway and back.
If this was the one time shot attempting TOS-R, I agree.

As a purist, the Blu-ray discs gave me the choice to watch the original version instead (except for a technical problem on "The Ultimate Computer" at the first seconds).

But other than the beautiful and enhanced new matte paintings, some obvious fixes (Enterprise in darkness zone in "The Immunity Syndrome", after M-5 has switched off the lights on some decks in "The Ultimate Computer") the whole TOS-R excercise lacks passion for TOS in my humble opinion. One might say they got it halfway right but I'd feel TOS deserved a more passionate treatment.

Bob
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Old February 12 2013, 07:53 PM   #19
MickJo1701
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

I liked a lot of the work in TOS R, most of the additions and matte's looked excellent. It probably would have worked better if CBS D wasn't fighting such a tight schedule.

If money was no option I'd have loved them to recreate the motion control passes of the Enterprise and other ships in TOS instead of producing not terribly convincing CGI.
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Old February 12 2013, 08:32 PM   #20
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

MickJo1701 wrote: View Post
instead of producing not terribly convincing CGI.
CGI technology is not the problem. How it is handled by the artists, producers, directors, etc. makes the difference. I can appreciate all the work that went into the new FX, even though I do not like many of them. My gripe is not that the new shots look too clean or too new or whatever. I dislike many of the shots I've seen because they do not match the style of the original show. They simply do not mesh with the rest of the show around them. Showing up on a grasshopper green rice burner at a Harley convention would have the same effect. There's nothing wrong with the crotch rocket. It just doesn't fit in.

Motion controlled miniatures could prove as unsatisfactory if the artists and other creators in the pipeline make the "wrong" choices.
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Old February 12 2013, 09:05 PM   #21
Ronald Held
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Besides the cleanup, nothing else. If CG was to be added it should be in the TOS style and not stand out.
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Old February 12 2013, 11:12 PM   #22
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
They have already gone too far, for my taste.
Agreed completely. I do not need "It's a Wonderful Life" colorized, I do not want dialogue added to Buster Keaton's "The General," and I certainly do not want blood added to TOS. For Pete's sake, have you not noticed that millions of Americans are deeply concerned over this country's culture of violence? Save blood for your video games, and please leave TOS out of it.
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Old February 12 2013, 11:53 PM   #23
Dick_Valentine
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Considering that they probably would have the Original un-touched episodes on the Blu-Ray sitting right next to the re-masters, they should've gone further. So should've TNG.

I'm not a big fan of using the most high-tech modern computer imagery to recreate primitive 60s film-making.

Even at the time some of the shots looked dodgy, I've never been a fan of the way the TOS Enterprise seems to list around with her Nacelles tilted forwards as if the Saucer was 50x heavier (and it was feeling that in the atmosphere) and some of the love of that ship's looks is pure Nostalgia and nothing else, it simply doesn't look great from every angle the way later ships were designed to.

No, it would've been better to completely remaster it in the same way Doctor Who have done on their DVDs, (though they have the advantage in their episodes are completely lost so it's CGI or nothing in some case which placates the fan-base and even when they add CGI to existing episodes it's never seen as a replacement, just an optional enhancement )

I guess the issue should be just in the marketing.
It should've been made clear with the CBS remastering that the originals are still there to be enjoyed, but there are extra FX sequences for those who would like them.

The whole attitude of "well I don't like them so they shouldn't do them" is blinkered in the extreme.

Tonight on CBS Action here in the UK I watched the episode where Kirk loses his memory and marries a primitive woman while the Enterprise is left to attack an asteroid on course for the planet and the Asteroid part looked great on my HD TV, the final shot from the planet's defences could've been more dynamic though, perhaps even blowed the damn thing up.
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Old February 13 2013, 12:27 AM   #24
CorporalCaptain
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Tonight on CBS Action here in the UK I watched the episode where Kirk loses his memory and marries a primitive woman while the Enterprise is left to attack an asteroid on course for the planet and the Asteroid part looked great on my HD TV, the final shot from the planet's defences could've been more dynamic though, perhaps even blowed the damn thing up.
Yeah, because that's what asteroid deflectors do.
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Old February 13 2013, 01:20 AM   #25
Robert Comsol
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Metryq wrote: View Post
Showing up on a grasshopper green rice burner at a Harley convention would have the same effect. There's nothing wrong with the crotch rocket. It just doesn't fit in.
I like the comparison and feel it also applies here. Now some may say (and have said) that the original VFX made the ships look like bulky wooden vessels but in comparison the specularity of the new CGI shots (especially the Klingon Battlecruiser) makes the ships in TOS-R look like plastic and rather lightweight.

The whole "bomb bay door" concept to unload the orbital satellites in "Operation: Annihilate" made the Enterprise look like a space plane while it's a starship. I prefer wood over plastic.

Bob
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Old February 13 2013, 01:30 AM   #26
Dick_Valentine
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Tonight on CBS Action here in the UK I watched the episode where Kirk loses his memory and marries a primitive woman while the Enterprise is left to attack an asteroid on course for the planet and the Asteroid part looked great on my HD TV, the final shot from the planet's defences could've been more dynamic though, perhaps even blowed the damn thing up.
Yeah, because that's what asteroid deflectors do.
Well I think that was as close as they'd ever got so it should have emergency destroy settings too.

Pushing them away are just Star Trek versions of the somebody else's problem machine "Yeah, we don't need this, lets litter the cosmos that bit more and send this one back out there..."
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Old February 13 2013, 01:36 AM   #27
CorporalCaptain
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The whole "bomb bay door" concept to unload the orbital satellites in "Operation: Annihilate" made the Enterprise look like a space plane while it's a starship.
Also, in TOS-R: Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, something appears deployed in that same general area while the Enterprise decontaminates Ariannus, visible at http://trekmovie.com/2008/01/22/let-...d-screenshots/.
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Old February 13 2013, 08:15 AM   #28
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
The explosive wouldn't be the "most powerful one in history" if it left any trace of Marta. Just sayin'
Agreed. Any splatter on the window would have been an almost imperceptibly fine mist.
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Old February 13 2013, 09:05 AM   #29
ZapBrannigan
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
The explosive wouldn't be the "most powerful one in history" if it left any trace of Marta. Just sayin'
Agreed. Any splatter on the window would have been an almost imperceptibly fine mist.
I was just picturing a little artistic licence, then. It's not like I was asking for a spine and two feet of intestines. Just a restrained, tasteful splash of blood. Yeah, it's probably a bad idea.
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Old February 13 2013, 08:02 PM   #30
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Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

With or without it you still can't beat some of the TOS stories !!! I've got to admit I've always liked TOS with or without the TOS-R !!!
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