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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old February 11 2013, 03:32 PM   #91
Pauln6
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Conjecture is the bread and butter of any forum.
True, but there's a point where it becomes "please comment on this fanfic I just wrote".

For my part, the sexism of the movie was annoying and making it less sexist would have been a plus. For my part some of the behaviour and coincidences were a bit too clumsy so making them less clumsy would have been a plus.
That I can agree with, although I didn't find Star Trek any more sexist than most popcorn movies, i.e. it was a little bit sexist. There are so many examples of actual, tangible sexism all around us that I can't conjure the strength to be up in arms just because Uhura spent some of her screen time as one of the main characters' love interest.
Uhura is the token female silly. It's all the other characters you need to look at when assessing how sexist the movie was. Plus if a sci fi franchise built on the premise of equality is as sexist as the average popcorn movie, don't you think that is a failure on the part of the writers?

Ooh - and please comment on this fanfic I wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/user/pauln6
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Old February 11 2013, 03:37 PM   #92
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Uhura is the token female silly. It's all the other characters you need to look at when assessing how sexist the movie was.
You need to look at both, actually. The missed opportunities as well as the actual portrayal of women in the movie.

Plus if a sci fi franchise built on the premise of equality is as sexist as the average popcorn movie, don't you think that is a failure on the part of the writers?
No, because I don't agree that Star Trek was built on the premise of equality. Its most recent incarnation is just as sexist as the franchise has always been.

Ooh - and please comment on this fanfic I wrote:
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Well played, sir.
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Old February 11 2013, 03:37 PM   #93
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

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I hope not. Nu-Uhura is awful.
I'm sure it would be more interesting if you took the time to elaborate a little more. The new version of Uhura is a fully realized character, which she had never been before.
She is abrasive, snooty, cold and blackmails a professor she's been shagging to get a better assignment. I'd hardly call that a fully realised character.

Before I saw Nu-Trek, I had hoped that the developers would do something more with the character. I have always loved Nichelle Nichols portrayal of a warm and caring female officer. Given the circumstances she was never used anywhere near as much as she could/should have been, but what I did see made me like her.

The Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship needs to come back into the central focus, as it always was in the series and films.

But of course all this is my own opinion. It'll take some amazing work from the writers, director and actress in STID to make me change my opinion on Nu-Uhura.
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Old February 11 2013, 03:45 PM   #94
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
She is abrasive, snooty, cold and blackmails a professor she's been shagging to get a better assignment. I'd hardly call that a fully realised character.
Actually, yes, what you've just described is a fully realized character. It seems like you wouldn't like her as a person if she were a real person, but that's an entirely different thing. A good character is not necessarily one that you'd like to meet or share time with.
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Old February 11 2013, 04:02 PM   #95
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Plus if a sci fi franchise built on the premise of equality is as sexist as the average popcorn movie, don't you think that is a failure on the part of the writers?
No, because I don't agree that Star Trek was built on the premise of equality. Its most recent incarnation is just as sexist as the franchise has always been.
I agree they've never successfully shown it on screen but nonetheless the show is founded on that premise.

Classic example of failing to live up the ideals is a recent comic featuring Keenser where, instead of adapting the workplace to allow Keenser to do his job as we would have to in the 20th century (a simple antigrav plate or an old fashioned step would do the trick) Scotty suggests that Keenser might not be cut out to serve on a starship. What makes it worse is that Keenser is being protrayed as a senior officer - like Starfleet is going to crap out officers that can't even do their job.

So I do think we should offer criticism to encourage them to do better and live up to the premise instead of shrugging and saying oh well, it's always been like that.

For that Voyager was still in many ways very sexist, it did take some forward steps. Building on that would be good. NuTrek most definitely did not.
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Old February 11 2013, 05:09 PM   #96
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
She is abrasive, snooty, cold and blackmails a professor she's been shagging to get a better assignment. I'd hardly call that a fully realised character.
Actually, yes, what you've just described is a fully realized character. It seems like you wouldn't like her as a person if she were a real person, but that's an entirely different thing. A good character is not necessarily one that you'd like to meet or share time with.
All changes I could understand if it had been her father killed aboard the Kelvin, but she should be just the same person she was in the prime universe.

Also with behaviour like that, surely she'd have been kicked out of the Academy and Spock dismissed from Starfleet for abusing his position, which would have rendered both of them unable to serve onboard any ship.

I'm not against a reboot and adding new elements to the characters, so long as they make sense. I'm not the hugest TOS fan out there, but it was what started Trek and many have a a special place for it in their hearts, with characters who are like old friends. Destroying that just to make someone 'sexy' (sorry, but I just don't see it) or 'sassy' (I can think of many things to call her, that isn't one of them) is just poor writing.
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Old February 11 2013, 05:15 PM   #97
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
All changes I could understand if it had been her father killed aboard the Kelvin, but she should be just the same person she was in the prime universe.
Maybe she was. We know next to nothing about the Uhura from the old continuity.

Also with behaviour like that, surely she'd have been kicked out of the Academy and Spock dismissed from Starfleet for abusing his position, which would have rendered both of them unable to serve onboard any ship.
What makes you think that? Evidently she was not kicked out of the Academy, so her behavior was considered to be acceptable.

I'm not against a reboot and adding new elements to the characters, so long as they make sense. I'm not the hugest TOS fan out there, but it was what started Trek and many have a a special place for it in their hearts, with characters who are like old friends. Destroying that just to make someone 'sexy' (sorry, but I just don't see it) or 'sassy' (I can think of many things to call her, that isn't one of them) is just poor writing.
Obviously nothing has been destroyed. And it's, I think, a little odd that you don't agree with the words "sexy" and "sassy" since you're the one who introduced them into the conversation. I certainly did not, and neither did the writers or the director, IIRC.
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Old February 11 2013, 05:50 PM   #98
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
She is abrasive, snooty, cold and blackmails a professor she's been shagging to get a better assignment. I'd hardly call that a fully realised character.
Fans' abilities to read into a cute scene and make DEADLY SERIOUS BLACKMAIL from it will never cease to amaze me.
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Old February 11 2013, 06:03 PM   #99
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
What makes you think that? Evidently she was not kicked out of the Academy, so her behavior was considered to be acceptable.
Most educational bodies frown upon a professor and student becoming romantically or sexually involved, without knowing more about the Academy code of coduct I think it would be safe to assume that such standards would remain.

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Obviously nothing has been destroyed. And it's, I think, a little odd that you don't agree with the words "sexy" and "sassy" since you're the one who introduced them into the conversation. I certainly did not, and neither did the writers or the director, IIRC.
Why make such drastic changes to the character if that wasn't their intention? As the only female in the cast she has to be used as the 'sex appeal' and giving her all the attitude makes her more modern.

That's how it comes across to me.
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Old February 11 2013, 06:06 PM   #100
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Fans' abilities to read into a cute scene and make DEADLY SERIOUS BLACKMAIL from it will never cease to amaze me.
I don't see it as "DEADLY SERIOUS", just highly unprofessional. If she had a grievance and had a legitimate arguement for requesting reassignment, why go running off to Spock (someone she has sway over) and not the female officer who gave Uhura her posting?

There are many little things in the Nu-Trek film that bother me, this is one of them.
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Old February 11 2013, 06:12 PM   #101
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
If she had a problem with her posting and had a legitimate arguement, why did she not raise it with the female officer who was issuing the billets?
She raised the issue with her superior officer, the one who made the decision in the first place.

Why make such drastic changes to the character if that wasn't their intention? As the only female in the cast she has to be used as the 'sex appeal' and giving her all the attitude makes her more modern.
I see no "drastic changes". We've just focused on Uhura a little bit for the first time ever, so the character comes off as more personated and better defined than she used to be, but there's nothing about the new Uhura that makes her dramatically different from the original Uhura, except for the fact that the character is played by a different actress and that it's not the 1960's anymore.
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Old February 11 2013, 06:56 PM   #102
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
If she had a problem with her posting and had a legitimate arguement, why did she not raise it with the female officer who was issuing the billets?
She raised the issue with her superior officer, the one who made the decision in the first place.
Yeah and the way I saw it Spock was trying to appear fair by being unfair to her and he would have given her the posting on the Enterprise had they not being going out. She had every right to complain about that.
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Old February 12 2013, 07:14 AM   #103
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
I see no "drastic changes". We've just focused on Uhura a little bit for the first time ever, so the character comes off as more personated and better defined than she used to be, but there's nothing about the new Uhura that makes her dramatically different from the original Uhura, except for the fact that the character is played by a different actress and that it's not the 1960's anymore.
To quote the great John McEnroe: "You CAN NOT be serious!" Now I have heard it said the two McCoys are rather similar. They must be who you are thinking of.


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The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
If she had a problem with her posting and had a legitimate arguement, why did she not raise it with the female officer who was issuing the billets?
She raised the issue with her superior officer, the one who made the decision in the first place.
Yeah and the way I saw it Spock was trying to appear fair by being unfair to her and he would have given her the posting on the Enterprise had they not being going out. She had every right to complain about that.
As I have said before (or if not I should have!), if Spock was so concerned about an obvious potential conflict of interest (a bit late btw) he should have excused himself from making Uhura's assignment. Now, especially in what was clearly a temporary assignment (where-after they should have all gone back to the academy to complete their damned training ), Uhura had no right to question her posting. There could easily have been a good reason for placing her on a another ship. Besides, if you start by letting people choose their own favourite billets (no matter how "entitled" and full of their own importance they are), where will it end?
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Old February 12 2013, 07:38 AM   #104
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

UFO wrote: View Post
To quote the great John McEnroe: "You CAN NOT be serious!" Now I have heard it said the two McCoys are rather similar. They must be who you are thinking of.
No, it's not. What aspects of the old Uhura were left out, in your opinion?
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Old February 12 2013, 11:41 AM   #105
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Re: Uhura replacing McCoy/Bones?

UFO wrote: View Post
As I have said before (or if not I should have!), if Spock was so concerned about an obvious potential conflict of interest (a bit late btw) he should have excused himself from making Uhura's assignment. Now, especially in what was clearly a temporary assignment (where-after they should have all gone back to the academy to complete their damned training ), Uhura had no right to question her posting. There could easily have been a good reason for placing her on a another ship. Besides, if you start by letting people choose their own favourite billets (no matter how "entitled" and full of their own importance they are), where will it end?
So very true

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
UFO wrote: View Post
To quote the great John McEnroe: "You CAN NOT be serious!" Now I have heard it said the two McCoys are rather similar. They must be who you are thinking of.
No, it's not. What aspects of the old Uhura were left out, in your opinion?
Well lets see. They left in she was black and communications officer...after that I draw a blank. There are no other similarities between the two characters.

But then again there was no way they could ever match Nichelle Nichols.
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